78 - The Consequences of a Weak Brand

Rich: In your head, in your head, in your head.

Catelin: You're the background, backup singer.

Rich: Yeah, I'm just backup.

Catelin: Well, I think that, uh, what an intro, right? We're gonna have a little zombie cocktail, and we're gonna talk about the consequences of a, of a weak brand.

Rich: Weak brand. And the cranberries, like, in their time, were not a weak brand.

Rich: Like, they were great. No, still are.

Catelin: I mean, like,

Rich: Yeah, I feel like they've slipped a little bit. I guess we can talk about that. We'll have to ask Megan. We have a guest. Guest alert. Megan is our guest. Graphic designer extraordinaire. We'll ask her how she feels about the Cranberries. And she'll be like, the who?

Rich: Like, no, not the who. They're an older band, the Cranberries. Dad joke Tuesday, Thursday, it's Thursday, I guess when everybody's listening to this. Don't do that. Yes, we're going to talk about how a weak brand can impact your company's success. Um, and Megan's going to share her expertise. She does help build brands for companies.

Rich: She sure does. Like from the visual to the additional stuff that encompass a brand because a brand is not just your logo.

Catelin: Um, I

Rich: know that it's, it is funny. I'd have like 45 cents, but still, um, no. Oh, did you see you weren't there yesterday or were you there yesterday? So I was in the CCD office and I was switching bags.

Rich: So I got a new backpack. Yes, your

Catelin: 75.

Rich: And yeah, I found 75 in my old backpack in random pockets that I hadn't, like, I didn't even know it was there. So, uh, Like,

Catelin: 75 not together in separate, different pockets? So there were three twenties

Rich: folded together. One pocket had A ten in it, another pocket had two ones in it, and then I found three ones in a different pocket.

Rich: And then I have a random twenty on my desk right now, so I got like ninety five bucks. I can go do some damage somewhere. You

Catelin: could. I mean, like, that's a decent dinner with a couple of cocktails for one, you know? It is.

Rich: I wonder how many zombies it would buy me if I went down to, uh, is it La Colona? Is that right?

Rich: La Colona. You're in Omaha? Mm hmm. Um, they've got to, they have to have the zombie. I'm sure they do. Because it is.

Catelin: It's a, yes, it's a pretty standard tiki drink, for sure.

Rich: And uh, thanks to uh, Hollywood Don, the Beachcomber, um, In 1934, it was invented by him at Don Beach. Uh, Don with two N's, not to be confused with Hollywood Don with one N.

Rich: Um,

Catelin: I don't know who Hollywood Don restaurant.

Rich: Um, oh no, it was, I'm sorry. Oh wow, never mind. I'm just reading these notes and my eyes are blurry because they're watering.

Yeah.

Rich: Uh, the guy's name was Don Beach.

Yes. The

Rich: restaurant was Hollywood Don the Beachcomber. Wow, that's, I thought Hollywood down the beach corner was the dude, but I am wrong.

Rich: Um, and it was on the East Coast soon afterwards, uh, because it was featured at the 1939 New York World's Fair. So, it's a famous world lead, Drake. That's interesting, because I, I mean, like,

Catelin: I always think of Tiki as like, fifties, but I suppose, you know.

Rich: It is. I mean, well, people were obviously drinking rum before that.

Rich: Um, I wonder if Tiki, we'll have to look up the etymology of Tiki and did it like come about in the fifties as like a concept?

Catelin: Um, I think a lot of it is like post war return, like, like the beach influence of being in, um, Vietnam, 50s, 60s, like Southeast Asia, Hawaii, like it's, it, there's like a military tie in.

Rich: So here's the spoiler, I just looked up origin of the tiki drink and this is the original tiki drink. Yeah. Like.

Yeah.

Rich: Like the original. Um, they were called Rum Rhapsodies before this. And those were the first tiki drinks. You know why it's called a zombie though,

Catelin: right?

Rich: Uh, no, it wasn't called a zombie.

Catelin: No, I know, but why it's called a zombie now?

Catelin: Because it kind of turns you into one if you into one, yeah, because it's loaded

Rich: with booze. Like, he would put up to ten ingredients in these things. So, um, I think that's a lot of tiki places

Catelin: will say that you can only have, like, one or two of these. And then they'll

Rich: cut you off. Yeah, it's like long melon iced teas, right?

Rich: Like, one of those and you're like Which are gross. They are. This is much better.

Catelin: This recipe also has one of my favorite standard tiki ingredients, falernum, which, uh, in the pandemic when my in home bartender was making a lot of cocktails, he said, I need to get some falernum. And I thought he was having like a, like a, like a vocal stroke.

Catelin: Falernum. Yes. Yeah. And I was like, that seems Irish. What is it? So then you have to say it, Falernum. You have to say it with the Falernum. With the Falernum. Yeah. Uh, but a zombie is one and a half ounces of Jamaican rum, an ounce and a half of Puerto Rican gold rum, an ounce of, uh, 151 proof Demerara rum. So, just to, just, that's, um, Four ounces of rum.

Catelin: Four, four full shots of alcohol. Uh, three quarters of an ounce of lime juice, half an ounce of Don's mix, which we will, um, talk about in a moment, and a half ounce of fulleranum, as discussed. And then a teaspoon or a dash of grenadine. And then, uh, four dashes of Pernod, and that is an anise liquor and absinthe.

Blech.

Catelin: And then a dash of Angostura bitters. See, I

Rich: love that black licorice y ness, and this is just a little hint to it. It's just like, just four dashes. Doo doo doo doo. Nope. Um. So you're gonna

Catelin: add your Jamaican rum, Puerto Rican rum, demerara rum, Pernod lime juice. Dom's Mix Falernum, grenadine, and bitters into a blender, and then you're gonna add six ounces of crushed ice.

Blend at

Catelin: high speed for no more than five seconds. Who's, who's telling, blend for as long as you want it to be. Um, if you want a real slush, go for it. Uh, and you're gonna pour the contents

Rich: Yeah, I think they want it to be more crushed ice, like, instead of full full on slush, is what they were looking for.

Rich: Yeah,

Catelin: I don't know, do what you want. If you're gonna drink that much rum, you should have carte blanche to make your own choices. Uh, pour the contents into a tall glass, a tiki mug. Um, I think this looks really cute in a hurricane. The The, like, bulb and the flo it kind of looks like a flower base. Uh huh.

Catelin: Um, and then add additional crushed ice to fill, if necessary. Garnish with a mint sprig. Probably ought to throw in a cocktail umbrella and maybe a twisty straw, just to really zhuzh it up. Uh, to make your Dawn's Mix, you're going to bring three crushed cinnamon sticks, one cup of sugar and one cup of water to a boil, stirring until the sugar is completely dissolved.

Catelin: Simmer for two minutes, remove from heat. And, uh, let it sit for a couple hours to cool and then strain into a clean plastic bottle. And then, um, to finish, you can add one part of the syrup to two parts, fresh grapefruit juice, cover and keep refrigerated. For up to two weeks, so it's basically like cinnamon, simple syrup with grapefruit juice.

Rich: So I would do that. Like in coffee or something or cocoa, like that'd be real delicious. Um, okay.

Catelin: I could take or leave a zombie. If we're being honest, that recipe per usual comes, not per usual, but again, comes from liquor. com and you're looking at zombie too. Yeah. It's not my favorite, but that's mostly because I don't like to peel paint when I enjoy a cocktail.

Catelin: I

Rich: also don't like to get, you know, fall off my stool from my first two cocktails. I really like that to come at the sixth or seventh cocktail. The surgeon general also have

Catelin: words

Rich: with you. Yeah. I haven't said much in a while, but, um, normally I say like, you can double the booze. It's totally fine. Do not double the booze on this one.

Rich: It's four ounces.

Catelin: That's plenty of what's going on in here. That's one. That's one. Yeah.

Rich: Yes. Uh, all right. lot of alcohol. So we got a zombie. We got the, the origination, origination. I don't know what I'm saying. Have you had

Catelin: some rum already?

Rich: I know, right? Like, this is just water. I swear, it's just water. Uh, it might be vodka.

Rich: I don't know. Um, origins of the tiki cocktail. Love, you're not better than me to bring vodka onto my

Catelin: podcast.

Rich: I know, you prefer gin. Get out of here. Uh, if it was gin, it would actually have a little hint of color because those are the gins that we have, the flavored ones that have a little Oh, you have all

Catelin: of the shmere me ones?

Catelin: Yeah. Yeah,

Rich: we're very fancy there. But I'm trying to drink through them in case I have to move in the near future. Um, that's a tangent for another time.

Catelin: That, I don't think we have time for that ever. All right,

Rich: so zombies and weak brands. So weak brands with Megan when we come back.

Rich: All right, the little countdown's over, we're back.

Catelin: We're back.

Rich: There's a little 5, that we get. Thankfully, because Zach used to have to do it with his hand, like, now he doesn't have to.

Catelin: It was very, uh, archaic. Our goal

Rich: is to have Zach do as little work as possible on these podcasts. Not really, he does a lot of work on these podcasts, especially afterwards, um, dealing with all of our Random.

Rich: Uh, stuff. So, uh, Megan is here. Hi, Megan. Hi. Uh, so, um, yeah, we're doing video now, Meg. So, you're on video.

Megan: Meg. Meggie. Thank you. I was a little nervous. I'm not gonna lie. I was a little nervous. I was like, oh, gosh. Cause the added video part, it's, it's fun. It's an interactive visual, obviously, for our viewers, but.

Rich: Yeah,

Megan: well, I'm wearing these worry about your RBF a little bit more.

Rich: Yeah, I mean, not really, like, I don't think Caitlyn's ever been concerned about that. Um, and Lord knows sometimes I'm just like, looking off. It's that you are confident, and if you've got an RBF, you've got an RBF, and people need to deal with it.

Rich: Uh, you're a grown ass woman, and your face can say whatever you want it to say.

Catelin: I said that earlier. I was like, Oh, my face isn't being nice right now.

Rich: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of things that I don't say with my mouth, but my face just screams them out. And I'm like, okay, I used to have a good poker face, but it scared people.

Rich: And so I've tried to show my emotions more. All right. But we're here to talk about weak brands. Um, so what's the easiest way to know you have a weak brand, Megan? How do I know? I

Megan: would generally say, um, if it, if there's a lot of inconsistencies, You don't have really a full fledged, like, either brand guide, brand standards that you're sticking to.

Megan: It's just kind of, uh, you know, a DIY logo and then some other elements and your brand never looks the same or, like, communicates the same to your audience. That's an issue. And that's a weak brand.

Rich: So if you're a hot mess, basically, like, if I ask you, like, Hey, what's your brand color? And you're like, Oh, I don't know.

Rich: Sometimes it's the screen. Sometimes it's blue. It's like, most people will know, like, a PMS color or a hex code. Yep. Or at least like orange is our primary color and navy is our secondary. Though sometimes we flip those. It's really fun. Um, so yeah, if you, and I think the lack of documentation, that's a big one.

Rich: Well, if nothing is written down, you don't, like you've got a weak brand. Uh, probably there are small, small, small exceptions where you could have a very strong brand without the documentation or anything around it. Extremely rare. And most people on this call like winning the lottery or on this, not this call, um, listening to this, um, will not fall in that category.

Megan: I was going to say, I feel like that would be maybe craft designers or like high level marketing execs where it's just like drilled in your head and that's about it.

Rich: Or like a niche clothing brand can get really tight, but usually that's because they've put so much into the design of the clothing.

Yeah.

Rich: Um, but yeah, and I think, um, so my brand is just my logo though, right?

No. I know. I know.

Rich: All right. So, um, very cool. Yeah. It's, it's so much more than that. We've talked about that before. I think we had an episode called. Your brand is more than your logo.

Catelin: Probably. We

Megan: should recap

Catelin: that, though. What else is it?

Megan: I mean, if you think about, like, your brand voice, how are you communicating and, like, what kind of words or, like, tone are you using to communicate to your audience? You obviously have the visual part of it, so, like, your brand identity and, like, the visual storytelling that you can have with that. So, like we said, colors, your logo, logo variations, kind of, like, your imagery, style, and tone.

Megan: You know, um, whether you're doing, like, in house photography or, like, what does your stock photography look like? Is that consistent? Um, you also have, kind of, like, the company culture aspect to it. So, like, how are you representing yourself as a company? And we'll kind of dig into that a little bit more, but, uh, those are just some examples.

Rich: Yep. Those are good ones. You just like,

Megan: you know,

Rich: it's like, you know, this stuff or something. Um, no, that was really good. Um, cause I was like, well, it's your font. And I mean, I know what your brand is, but right. It's like, if you were a person, what kind of person would you be? Are you a bitch face brand? Or are you a, I'm always smiling.

Rich: Can your brand raise one eyebrow? Like Caitlin can, I cannot do one eyebrow. I just, Even if I try, they both go up. Never been a skill of mine. Dorothy can

Catelin: do it too, it's terrifying. She did it to me the other day and I was like, you better put the fucking eyebrow down.

Rich: Okay. Wow. I'm not

Catelin: ready for me to look at my own face.

Rich: You created it. I did. I

Catelin: did.

Rich: Okay. So my brand is a hot mess. I have a weak brand. Who cares? Do I care? I should care. Right, Megan? I think.

Megan: Yeah.

Rich: So how, like, why is it important? Like, I know that brands can be expensive and people complain about it and, you know, getting the. Full brand work all together. Um, I think ours is pretty affordable for what it is.

Rich: I've done several of those and I see people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for stuff. Um, but if you like, you have to have the investment to get the payoff. So if you don't,

Megan: I was just going to say, like, if you think about a lot of our kind of like fan favorite brands, at least in the U S like this very strong brand identity.

Megan: Um, like, companies out there, like when you think of McDonald's, Starbucks, Apple, kind of like, you know, the bigger, uh, conglomerate companies. Uh, you know their brand from their packaging, their locations are distinguishable, and you also have, like, more sensory experiences that you couldn't kind of recognize, like when you go to McDonald's, you're like, oh, the fries, or Um, kind of thing that when you go into Apple, like there's a lot of like kind of that visual storytelling within how their locations are set up and then also then comes in their logo and they're like logo variations.

Megan: It's all very recognizable and not having a strong identity can really can create like confusion or compete with your brand awareness. So it's like, do you have consistency? Is your brand easily recognizable amongst local or national competitors?

Rich: And can I talk about it? Right. You can, so I was thinking as you were doing that, I'm like, you know, what's funny is like, you talk about the smell and like a McDonald's or even a Panera.

Rich: It's like the, the bread going in, even Subway, like I'm not a huge Subway fan, but the bread smells great when you're smelling it. Um, and I was thinking like Apple, I'm like, I feel like they have the absence of all smell in those stores. Like, I don't think there's any smell. Um, and then I was thinking, they might, I mean, it's possible that could be part of the brand, that clean neutral.

Rich: Because I mean, it's all white and black and wood, like it's all these simple tones in there. So maybe, yeah. Um, but I was thinking about, um, total gonna call myself out here, but guilty pleasure. I watch Emily in Paris on Netflix and it's a good show. It is a good show I thought of. It's an easy show and it's cute.

Rich: I mean, safe company. Good. Um, but nobody

Catelin: here is judging you.

Rich: They have, um, that client that does perfumes and then they had the hotel client and they did The signature set for their hotels. And so I do know also that retail stores, and I know that a very large furniture store here in Omaha does this, they will have smells pushed throughout the store.

Rich: So they actually have like, they have speakers for music. They have scent distributors in the ceiling. And so like in the kitchen area, they'll put out like chocolate chip cookie smell, things like that. Yep. So it draws you in, but it's always subtle. Like, it's not like walking through the perfume department in a department store, like, well, that's

just

Megan: like a headache. I worked at Bath and Body Works for a little bit. And like, they always had. I think it was like one of the candles one of the signature scents for the season was always burning and it kind of gave you a headache like it was so kind of intense was you're standing in there for so long but as a customer you come in you're like oh that smells really good let me go in like you said it really there's different ways for your brand to kind of like communicate what what it is and like what's going on and why you should come in and attract customers rather than just like The visual part of a brand.

Rich: A hundred percent. And scents don't work for everybody. I mean, case in point, Apple. Um, though I do feel like the lack of scent is probably purposeful. Uh, I appreciate it because I am allergic to everything, every soap, every scent, like everything makes me sneeze or itch. Um, so anytime I get a neutral environment, I, I do love it.

Rich: Um, I do also want to point out, like you brought up some really great ones that people think of as more high end brands, but even like a Walmart has a very strong brand. They stand for low prices, they do their markdowns. Um, they, um, they, you know what you're getting when you go there. Like it should be cheaper than other places, but it's also not going to be super fancy.

Rich: Um, but you can also just go in your sweatpants. So

Megan: Pajamas. You can do that anywhere. Like I hope, I hope that's not holding you back from like Target because

Rich: Target's chill like that. I ran into an employee in Target once who was, he's not with us anymore. Well, he's, he's not dead. He just doesn't work with us anymore.

Rich: I always have to be careful saying that. But, completely like, out of place, like came around the corner and he was there, and in, like, gym shorts and a huge baggy sweatshirt, and then had like some sort of a, like, wrap on his head. I don't know what was going on, but was completely shocked to see me, and was like, oh, uh, hi, and I'm like, hey, like, how are you, and he's like, uh, I'm good, and he went off to like, my stuff, he was like, I gotta get out of here, I'm out.

Rich: Anyway, cause, and I think partly because that clothing was off brand for him, uh, he was a very buttoned up kind of, uh, person. Um. All right, good. Um, so my I Go ahead,

Catelin: Kayla. Sorry. I liked the, the comment about like it's how your voice too, like how you, how you speak, how you interact with customers, are you super professional, are you more like laid back and friendly and, um, like, hey girl, how's it, you know, like, how can I help and, or is it like, thank you so much for reaching out, what, what can we do for you today, like, That's such an important Yeah.

Catelin: Point to and carry through kind of all levels. Like I, nothing bothers me more. Then if I submit a form and the response that I get is incongruent with the rest of the experience, like that, that post submit action, like that's part of it too, where it's like people forget to, you know, fill out whatever that autoresponder should be.

Rich: Thank you for submitting the form. And I'm like, but your site was so cool. And now you're being so formal and stodgy with me.

Catelin: Yeah. Yeah.

Rich: And doesn't give

Catelin: you, like, any information, either. So, like, that is also, like, like an extension of how you're caring for your clients, too, is, like, what should they expect next, right?

Catelin: Is it a phone call from a super chill, cheerful, then totally Yeah, or a fun email discount or whatever that that might be

Rich: yeah, and when you do something that's Incongruent with your brand. So even if you have a strong brand if you don't follow it It's really jarring for people like if you're a super bubbly friendly company and suddenly like you're putting out edgy stuff Like I yeah, I don't know what's going on here

but like if you're

Rich: edgy like Wendy's and you know irreverent like Bring it on like I expect that from the square burger people

Catelin: They do sell square burgers I think that kind

Megan: of goes to show though that like as consumers We kind of expect those kind of unique brand experiences and that's what helps set your brand apart from other people Like you're not blending in compared to kind of the rest of your market Especially when it comes to like the local businesses I know Zach and I were kind of talking about like If you think about your local plumber or, um, kind of like a industry where it's like your mechanics or something.

Megan: All of their logos and like messaging really sound the same, but it's more about like, okay, how can we set ourselves apart as like far as messaging? Or if you're not really wanting to blend in, like how can we push our brand to like fit who we are as a company rather than just going with status quo? Um,

Rich: Yeah, it's why, um, like banks, so there's a credit union in Omaha that uses purple as a color.

Rich: And part of the reason they do that is credit unions are different than banks and banks don't use purple. Like famously, T Mobile chose pink because nobody in wireless, everybody was blue or red or, you know, um, orange was singular back in the day. Yeah. Um. But yeah, it's, um, and all those things tell a story and they talk to who you are.

Rich: Okay. So I'm listening to this and I'm sitting here going, Oh my God, my brand sucks. It is weak as hell. How do I fix it?

Megan: I feel like, I guess, starting from, like, maybe what they can do now until you can kind of get either, like, funds together for a more longer term investment of, like, a whole, either, like, uh, brand revamp or, like, rebrand in general, um, Like figuring out kind of who you are as a company and how your tone comes across is something really easy that people can incorporate into like their day to day now versus like, oh, well, I can't afford a logo right now so I guess I can't change yet, but like maybe

Rich: And ask your customers, right?

Rich: How would you describe your experience with us? Like, how would you describe the brand? Like, you can even do a survey if you wanted to. If you don't know, like, ideally, you kind of know. Are you friendly? Are you whatever? Um, but your customers can help you and, you know, and that also, you want to make sure that you're tied to those customers and that your brand speaks to them.

Rich: So, whoever's coming in, something is speaking to them and they can probably articulate what it is or why they like it. Like, Oh, everything is so simple in here. It's really easy to find. Okay. Well, simplicity could be one of your core values and that could be a big part of your brand. And your logo then should be simple, not crazy.

Megan: I think kind of tying into that, like once you do know those kind of core elements of your brand of like what you want to focus on having a brand standards. Like if you don't already have one, make one, what are you doing? Um, I And then that way, whoever's creating your marketing materials, you're all on the same page.

Megan: It's not going to be like, oh, Stacy from marketing is putting out, like, the vibes of very, very fun, bolsterous, like, and then the brand is like, like you said, like maybe a credit union, and it just doesn't really match.

Rich: Yeah, I think. Uh, decide and document are the first two things that you can do. Um, and then I think get advice, you know, like you can talk to customers.

Rich: That's great. But you know, you talked about like, you know, prioritize it, maybe save up and hire a designer. Like if you can't get a firm, get a freelancer, get somebody who. Understands how things work and can bring a visual identity to you and help you define it, that fits that personality and voice and experience that you want people to have.

Rich: Yeah.

Megan: Well, cause like, although professional services can be a bit more of an investment and. Might be harder to kind of sell, you know, your higher ups on why they should spend all of this money on it. It's a an investment for a longer like Like you're gonna have more utilization within that kind of like professional services rather than like a diy local you do on campus That will last you maybe a year before you're like shoot.

Megan: I need A different local variation. I need this and this done. Like I was just seeing a video. Um on tiktok about a book A girl who's kind of like working with a client and they're like, I just need a logo. And she was like, just a logo doesn't really work for like your goals. I want to set you up for success and a lot of professional services have that expertise.

Megan: Um, like there's a lot of things clients don't necessarily think about where it's like color accessibility or the way that your logo comes across to people or whether it's like your brand voice. Maybe that doesn't really mesh like Rich said with, uh, the way your logo is or the way you're presenting yourselves to customers directly.

Megan: Like it all has to flow.

Rich: I think people don't realize even small businesses can be sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act if their website isn't ADA compatible or compliant and that's something we're like, okay, I've got this really great red that I'm using and it's like that is fantastic Here's how we're gonna tweak that red just slightly for the web.

Rich: So the contrast works better on your baby blue or whatever Um, I don't know what brand I invented that now has a red logo on a baby blue background, but it sounds good. It's

Catelin: probably somewhere. It's just very cute. It probably

Rich: is.

Catelin: When I think, that's, that's kind of the other point too of having a well defined brand and utilizing somebody who has that expertise to help you get there is you don't know what you don't know, right?

Catelin: Like. The ADA compliance piece is so huge for people who don't know that. And as soon as you bring that up, they're like, Oh my gosh, I never would have thought of that. I never would have expected that to be a consideration. And so, um, you know, that's a, that's a point that we hit on pretty consistently, especially when we're talking about web design, but it also factors if you're trying to like, to your point Megan, local variations.

Catelin: When you're making a logo and you have 14 colors in it, if you go to print that on a shirt, it's either going to cost you an arm and a leg, or it's going to look like a blob because you try and print it in one or two colors and your contrast isn't there. So there's all these like, sure there's that primary consideration, like I need it for my social media profile where contrast and, and colors aren't as much of a consideration, but when you start thinking about secondary and tertiary applications.

Catelin: That's when that branding expertise and knowledge really, really is necessary.

Rich: Uh, one of my favorite words, tertiary. Isn't it so good? That third tier never gets its due. Do

Catelin: you know, what also never gets its due? Quaternary. I'm, I'm trying to use quaternary.

Rich: Quaternary? Okay. Is it quinceanary? No, that's a whole, that's a 15 year old birthday.

Rich: No, that's,

Catelin: I don't, that'd be 15. Uh, quinceanera. And I don't think I can get 15. Yeah. I can't get 15. 15 layers deep. And I think

Rich: to your point, so our logo is a good example. Like we used to just be orange and we were just orange and everything was orange and it was on white or black or gray. Everything was orange.

Rich: Um, and when Jesse kind of went through our rebrand, he was like, Hey, can I like kind of expand our visual identity? I'm like, sure, go for it. Chief creative officer. Why would I tell you no?

Yeah.

Rich: We have variations of our logo on the server in black, white, orange, navy, and our, um, green, which is very similar to the green behind Caitlin right now, not quite the same.

Rich: Um, our colors actually have names, and it's, what's really funny is a couple of them, like the navy and the orange, we've used as paint in different offices. And so the names are the, I think it's the Sherwin Williams paint name, because it worked, it was like Discovery Blue or something like that. Yeah, I've done.

Rich: Energy, whatever they were there in our brand guidelines. And I should have them in front of me. But like we have our logo and all those variations and what's interesting is like, we learned that the light green and the Navy like really work well together with one on the other and it just feels more modern sometimes than the orange on white, but orange on Navy also works.

Rich: Um, and what's great is when we're buying, like if we were buying shirts with like doing merch, we can put whatever color on whatever color. That works. And if it's a really weird, bright shirt, then white or black, maybe. And we do have our tertiary colors. There's a lighter blue and a red that we can use as well.

Rich: But they're not primary colors and they don't show up on the logo.

Catelin: Yeah. But that's also, yeah, I mean, yeah, I just, I like to talk about color palettes because you don't, um, the, the unexpected, like, quaternary color in

Catelin: a palette. It's a really fun surprise.

Rich: We've sort of danced around it and I love throwing out weird ballparks that we have to stick with, but I think I'm pretty safe here. New people talk about the investment and it's like, you might be paying 5, 000 a month for your retail location. That's not a huge investment, um, you know, for a decent size store, but you know, so we've done logo, color, type, kind of a mini brand guidelines for what is it?

Rich: The 6, 000 range, five, six, 7, 000. Um, we've done full brands tend to run more like 12 to 15 to maybe 20. Yeah.

But that's

Rich: where we actually dive into your culture and your values and your voice and you get a document of that.

Megan: Yeah.

Rich: Um, and I've done some of those projects where it was hundreds of thousands of dollars in an agency, but it's not.

Rich: Like what rocket science, right? Or brain surgery. It's,

it's

Rich: about defining you and identifying you and putting it all together. So, you know, like if you can't take the equivalent of three months rent for something that's going to be with you the entire time you have a business, um, I mean, our brand guidelines, we redid them in, well, we did 2017, 16.

Rich: And then we redid them in 2020, which we didn't fully redo them. We removed a gradient, tweaked the orange a little bit, and then expanded the color palette. Um, but yeah, it's like, you know, we've had those same ones now for five years. Um, and we had the previous ones for four years, and they're actually just an extension of, an evolution of.

Rich: Um, But like all of our voice and things like that hasn't changed, like we are who we are.

Catelin: It's also you think about like, uh, I always put it in, in, you know, clothing or retail terms where you think about like a cost per wear, right? So you're, it's something you're going to look at every day. Your, your clients and your customers are going to interact with it every time they visit your website or look at a business card or, you know, get a communication from you.

Catelin: And so how do you make that as cohesive and, and flexible as you need it to be for all of those applications, while still being consistent across those, those things? And, um, that consistency I think is just the most important piece.

Megan: Yeah, I would say. Just like a, like a little thought I had, like more of a final thought.

Megan: DIY branding is easy. Like you can go to Canva, you can go to AI, have it created, but it's going to put you further behind in the long run. AKA you're going to have to rebrand everything in one to two years versus having, investing in a designer or like an agency, um, in the beginning. And I also feel like.

Megan: The way that that goes as far as like you don't have a story you can tell necessarily like your story application and If you have a brand guidelines or a brand center you have an agency who creates that for you It not only makes it easier to reference for like future design things But then your whole team has access to that and then it's it's easier to like maintain that brand So it's not as hard to be like, okay.

Megan: Well, I have to make this I don't really know how to do it I don't know what imagery or like The colors to use. You already have that all laid out in a document. Um, and it just makes your brand just really that more attractive to customers and more recognizable.

Rich: Yep. Do it right the first time. So thank you.

Rich: I know Zach was looking for final thoughts. So that's a great one. Um, thank you, Megan, for joining us. Uh, it was great to not just have me and Caitlin staring at each other this time, although we love staring at each other. We do it all the time.

Catelin: Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Rich: But it was really lovely having you here.

Rich: Uh, and the video, don't worry, it looks great and Zach will make everybody look fantastic.

Catelin: Thank you. Um,

Rich: I always look the weirdest on video, so it's all good. Tall and

Catelin: smart. Everyone here is tall and smart. That's what we, that's what we aim for. Uh, as always, you can find our agency at antidote underscore seven one.

Catelin: If you have a question you'd like to send our way, you can head to ctapodcast. live. To send us an email, or even better, you can leave us a voice message on our hotline at 402 718 9971. Uh, your question might even make it onto a future episode. And you could also get a little, a little sweet cocktail book that's branded,

Rich: very branded.

Rich: So our green, there's our red that we never use. There's our blue that we don't use a lot, but it worked really well as we needed sections of the cocktail book. And obviously our Navy with a little, like you adapted it though, you've got a little black kind of streak going through there. A shadow off of the, the martini glass,

Catelin: what we're doing.

Rich: Yeah, I think we do. So, um, thank you all again. As, as Caitlin said, um, hopefully you can enjoy a zombie if that's your thing. But your brand, if it feels like a hot mess or it's not documented, you've probably got a problem with it. So your first step to fix it is to define it and document it. And then we really do recommend get professional help.

Rich: Um, I mean, we, we all have professional help from time to time. I know Caitlyn and I have had many professionals helping us. Get help. Um,

Megan: If you don't know where to start, we're a great place too. 402 718 9971. We're wonderful. You could call us. Yes.

Catelin: We are. You can work

Rich: with me. We are here. Um, okay. So next week we are going to be back because the things are looming and uh, TikTok is potentially getting banned on the 20th of this month.

Rich: Oh. Um, and so we are going to talk about bourbon strawberry iced tea because you need something strong if you're going to talk about the banning of TikTok. Um. Bye. And I will just save everything that I've read recently about that until that episode and, um, I think we can just wrap this one up so Zach doesn't, like, slap us.

Catelin: Can't wait.