69 - Tips for Working with an Agency

Episode Transcript:

Catelin: Welcome to Thanksgiving. Happy

Rich: Thanksgiving, Caitlin. Thank

Catelin: you. What are you thankful for?

Rich: I am thankful for you, which I think I told you the other night in a text. You

Catelin: did and it was very nice. Um, I know that sometimes, That feeling is mutual.

Rich: It can make you smile and sometimes it can make you cry depending on how things are.

Rich: Although, I do think that they made you cry more when you were pregnant. I think that heightened hormones was maybe a thing. I don't

Catelin: know. Or do you just, you still cry at

Rich: compliments?

Catelin: Sometimes. Yeah. But, or like the, the deep, meaningful appreciation that comes from it. Yeah. Yep. So I am thankful for

Rich: you. I'm thankful for Zach too, since he's sitting there.

Rich: I don't want him to feel left out. Um, and I am thankful. But only

Catelin: because he's sitting there.

Rich: And I am thankful for Zach's hair because it is one of my favorite things. Um, and it is really, really like wild today.

Catelin: It's herring today. The hair is herring. The hair is

Rich: herring. Um, we, we're going to have to do these on video maybe in 2025.

Rich: So we can, uh. People will see what we're talking about and I hate myself on video, but, um, we'll give it a go,

Catelin: but we're thankful for, for healthy bodies and, um, being able to exist on video and that people can see us and interact with us and know us.

Rich: You know what I'm thankful for? Also, I am thankful for clients who understand how to work with an advertising agency Oh.

Rich: And understand, uh, the best tips and tricks for doing that. What a segue. I know, I know. I've been, I've got Zach in my head being like, you gotta share the topic. Share the topic. Uh, that's not what Zach sounds like for that. No, it's not what Z sounds like at all. . Well, he's, he's been on here. People know what he sounds like.

Rich: If you haven't just listened to the previous episodes last week, Zach was on last week, we talked about jumping the shark. Um. So yeah, so yes, let's,

Catelin: let's talk about tips you can utilize to build a positive and effective relationship with an agency, but first

Rich: we're going to get to a cocktail because Thanksgiving is all about family and family is all about cocktails and booze.

Rich: Uh, depending on your family, um, some families not, I guess, but I tend to, um, have somebody else drive me when I go on a holiday and I tend to then not worry about what I'm drinking.

Catelin: Disassociate? Is that too strong of a word?

Rich: Oh, I mean, I like my family, so we don't really, we more drink to be social. We don't really drink to avoid each other, um, which is good.

Rich: Yeah. So, um, we are doing a Thanksgiving margarita. So Zach found this one, uh, at liquor. com. It comes from bartender Naren Young, um, who is somewhere, but I don't have a location here, so that's okay. Anyway. She's off

Catelin: the grid.

Rich: Yes. And created the Thanksgiving margarita. So it takes the classic margarita and there's some elements of a classic margarita in here.

Rich: Um, and then throws in some autumnal flair. So there's like allspice, jam, amaretto, pumpkin puree. The pumpkin puree had me pausing for a moment, though, here's what I like. We get pumpkin puree for the dogs because it settles their tummy. If they have an upset tummy, but it's always like such a big amount and there's nothing to do with the rest of it.

Rich: So now when the dogs are sick, I can get pumpkin puree, give them a little bit and I can make me a Thanksgiving margarita.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: So yeah,

Catelin: I, I don't know if I'm sold on this one. I like the idea of these flavors, but I don't know if tequila is it for me.

Rich: You're gonna just do this with gin, aren't you?

Catelin: No, I would do this with like a raw, like a spiced rum or, uh, like a, like a monkey shoulder.

Rich: So then it wouldn't be a Thanksgiving margarita. No,

Catelin: it not be a margarita. It would just be like a, a cocktail. It'd be

Rich: a Thanksgiving Caitlyn drink.

Catelin: Yeah, uh, what would it be with rum? I don't know. So then it's a tiki drink, so. Thanksgiving tiki. Tiki's giving. Yeah. All right. Uh, what you need for this is a tablespoon of ground ginger, a tablespoon of sea salt.

Catelin: Damn, that's a lot of salt. One lime. Is it really a tablespoon? Wow. Okay. Yeah. Uh, a tablespoon of sea salt. I suppose if you're going to rim the glass, is it for rimming the glass? Okay. Okay. Okay. I was like, that's a lot. That's a lot of salt. You're going to have kidney failure. Okay. Okay. I'm back. We're back.

Catelin: Uh, one lime wedge, an ounce and a half of Ray Posado tequila, a quarter ounce of allspice jam, uh, which you can find at very select liquor stores. Um, it's not a popular thing. And I know that because of another fall cocktail that my husband made last year, wherein he had to hunt for allspice jam, a quarter ounce of amaretto, one ounce of pumpkin puree, and the other ounces can go to your puppies.

Catelin: Three quarters ounce of lime juice, freshly squeezed, half ounce of agave. And you can garnish this with a roasted pumpkin slice, which seems like a lot of freaking work, but I bet it's cute as hell. On a small plate. You have to do a

Rich: mini pumpkin. Like, you know what I'd almost want to do? Get a tiny mini pumpkin and just cut a wedge in it and just stick it, the whole pumpkin on the rim of the glass.

Rich: Like those little decorative ones that like I know exactly the ones you're talking about. West Omaha ladies have. All right. Anyway, so on a small plate, Caitlin.

Catelin: Combine the ground ginger and sea salt to rim your glass. Don't consume a tablespoon of salt in one go. Rub the lime wedge along the half, on half of the rim of a rocks glass.

Catelin: Dip the glass in the mixture. Uh, for a finer texture, pound the ginger and sea salt with a mortar and pestle. Ooh, this again, it sounds delicious, but this is a lot of work. Add the tequila, Allspice, jam, amaretto, pumpkin puree, lime juice, and agave into a shaker with ice. Shake until well chilled. This is the easiest part of this recipe so far.

Catelin: Strain into your prepared rocks glass over fresh ice and then garnish with your entire pumpkin.

Rich: Yes. Your whole tiny pumpkin. So I feel like Caitlin, this is a lot like Thanksgiving. It sounds delicious, but it's a lot of work.

Catelin: It's a lot of fucking work. And then at the end, you're like, that's it.

Rich: And at the end you're, you're comatose and ready to fall over and have a nap.

Rich: Um, I do, I think I would try this, but to your point, I kind of want someone else to make it for me. Um, It seems like a lot. The pumpkin puree is the piece that I'm like, I guess it would like mix through and you strain it, right? Yeah. You have to strain it, but you don't double strain it. Huh.

Catelin: But the puree, I mean like, it's kind of like the marmalade from last week where, where you shake it and it, and it dissolves.

Catelin: Its and diffuses and, and I do wanna also also emulsifies.

Rich: That is pumpkin puree. You can also get, especially when I'm talking with dogs, you can get the pumpkin pie puree in a can. We're not talking about that. We're talking about, it is literally just pumpkin puree. You could also get a pumpkin and puree your own.

Rich: There are two different things and you cannot give your, your pumpkin pie puree. No, it's got to be just pure pumpkin puree. So clarity on that, um, or you could get a pumpkin. I mean, if you're going to roast a pumpkin slice, you might as well get a fresh pumpkin and just puree that thing yourself, get your immersion blender out and just all over in it.

Catelin: Everything that it's all says like pumpkin puree, but then they have a picture of pie on the front.

Rich: Yeah, you just have to read the ingredients. It should, the ingredients should literally just be pumpkin. Pumpkin

Catelin: and like preservative probably.

Rich: Potentially. I

Catelin: may have just gone in a can. I got bad news for ya.

Rich: Yeah, all right. So that is your Thanksgiving margarita, and if you want to make it a Thanksgiving tiki, then Caitlin suggests substituting your tequila for a spiced rum and giving that a shot. I think the rest of it all works. Like, yeah, the allspice, the amaretto, agave. Yeah, it would be fine. It'd be, so it's a little nutty, a little spicy, a little pumpkin

Catelin: y.

Rich: I like, I think I like this.

Catelin: I would try it, but I don't want to make it.

Rich: Yeah, I would agree with you.

Catelin: All right. Which is actually kind of how I tend to feel about Thanksgiving. That's why

Rich: I'm so excited. We are going to a friend's house. I think I mentioned this last episode, but, um, because, uh, we, of course, like, what can we bring?

Rich: What can we bring? We're bringing wine because why would I not bring wine? Um, but she also said, she's like, you know, we don't have anything pumpkin because her mom makes this like chocolate and whipped cream dessert thing. Um, and so she's like, we could do a pumpkin something. And so my mom makes pumpkin.

Rich: Pumpkin bars from scratch. And so she's like, I don't make good pumpkin

Catelin: bars.

Rich: And so, um, What I love about it is even the thing we're bringing, um, then I don't have to make it. I just have to grab a couple bottles of wine and drive us out there. You just have to bring

Catelin: your mom.

Rich: I could maybe get the ingredients for this drink and have the people there try it and record some sound bites for Zach so that he would have them.

Rich: Oh, wouldn't that be fun? That would be exciting. I'll see if I can do that. Maybe I'll do that. All right, well, let's take a break and I'll think about that and then we'll come back and do more episodes.

Rich: And we are back. Uh, like a bad

Catelin: dream.

Rich: We're not a bad dream.

Catelin: No, you're not.

Rich: No, no. Now I've got the nightmare dress like a daydream in my head. Welcome. All right. Well, let's talk about setting yourself up for success to work with an advertising agency. Yes. Um, and I think that these are good for almost any professional relationship that you have, like whether it's an accountant or whoever, but these are really specific to agency stuff.

Rich: Um, so we've got four kind of broad tips. There's some nuance to each of them. Um, first one, um, be realistic, have realistic expectations and Express your expectations. It's very hard in any relationship for somebody to meet an expectation that hasn't been stated. Um, so. You know, no one can read your mind.

Rich: Um, definitely be open about that. The first part of this is, um, understand your budget and understand the agency and their typical fee and how that works and what you can get for your money. Um, all agencies are different. Um, we're kind of in the middle on fees. There are freelancers who are way cheaper than us and very small agencies.

Rich: There's very large agencies that are three times our fee. Um, so. So understand what you're going to get for that. Um, and you can do just even ask questions like what's the size retainer for your typical client? You know, if, or if you have a client doing X with you, what is the typical fee for that? Um, they're, they're going to be more than happy if you bring up a conversation, trying to have an honest, open conversation.

Rich: Conversation about budget. Um, it is easy to tell them what your budget is and then talk about your goals and what you want to accomplish, and then get a plan to accomplish what you want that fits your budget and also hold them to the, to it. Like if they say, like, they should tell you if your budget isn't realistic.

Rich: Like, if it's like, oh, well, we can't really get where you want to get for that budget. Um, that happens and, you know, you should have that conversation.

Catelin: It's also a lot easier to say, like, I have 5, 000. for the next two months. How can I like, how far can you get me? What could I do with that amount of money or that amount of time?

Catelin: And what would it take for me to do X and then also Y and Z. And just being upfront about that. Like there's no shame in a small budget. There's no, you know, I think like we've spent a lot of time nurturing and growing some of those smaller dollar folks into. More consistent spend and have the results to show.

Catelin: Uh, but when we first started, that was not, you know, an option for some of them. And it's okay to say like, here's, you know, my realistic budget. Don't waste my time or yours by trying to fit the entirety of a, uh, you know, strategy and plan into, uh,

Rich: Yeah. You can't, you can't buy a Rolls Royce on a Volkswagen budget.

Catelin: Thank you for coming around with an analogy. You're welcome. That's, that's what I'm

Rich: here for. Yeah. And I mean, honestly, like there've been times, I know it's hard because you feel like, Oh, if I tell them my budget, they're going to spend my whole budget. And it's like, well, that's not really how it works. Um, um, But we'll be able to tell you what we're going to do for that budget and different buckets we can put it in and how that's going to work.

Rich: Um, but even if you don't want to share your actual budget, if you just have that conversation about typical clients and typical scopes of work and things like that, um, that should be good.

Catelin: Barometer for sure.

Rich: Yep, and while you're setting expectations, have reasonable deadlines. Everything cannot be done by 5 p.

Rich: m. today. Um, you can't email. As soon

Catelin: as possible is not a deadline.

Rich: That's true. Because like

Catelin: as soon as possible might be two weeks from now.

Rich: Yeah, you need it to be measurable. If you've got a hard deadline, let them know. If they can't meet it, they can't meet it. Um, even if it's a little bit fast.

Rich: Sometimes when it's fast, they'll be like, oh, you know what, we've got a, an employee who's really great at that and quick and. They're free right now. So we can absolutely shift stuff. Our whole job is about juggling different projects and shifting priorities. Um, uh, and we can do that. So if you don't know how long something might take, just ask, be like, Hey, how long would it take you to pull together a social strategy for me for next year?

Rich: And what might that cost? They should be able to answer that. Like they'll be able to pull that together within a day for you. Um, and, uh, understanding. When you think something's going to come and the agent having the agency agree to that, or when they think something's going to arrive and having you agree to that is critical to not hating each other, honestly, and not being perpetually disappointed.

Rich: Um, the other one, um, You're not going to hurt anybody's feelings. Know when to speak up. If you have a concern, you've got a problem. You have an idea, you have a preconceived notion. We always ask when we get into branding projects, are there sacred cows, your color, your font, your symbol, those kinds of things.

Rich: Are there things that if we get rid of them, someone in your organization is going to freak out. Cause we don't want to waste our time, right? And if it's like, yeah, this has to be, you have to use this shade of blue, then we're going to work and iterate on that shade of blue. Um, if there really is nothing and you want something, if you like, you're like, I completely hate this, please blow it up and start over from a blank sheet of paper.

Rich: Let us know that that's a whole different assignment than. You know, create my logo with this specific color of blue and you must use a cow, like, so you're going to get a blue cow logo, like, that's, what's going to happen with that.

Catelin: Yeah. Yeah.

Rich: So, yeah, so, um, Budget, deadlines, and communication. Big ones on expectations.

Rich: Um, I think also letting them know how often you want to hear from them. Ooh, yeah.

Catelin: Preferred method of communication, too. Correct,

Rich: correct. Some clients, if you don't talk to them every day, they think that you're not doing anything. Um, because they like that validation daily. And that's important to know because that impacts your fee, right?

Rich: Communication and time is money. Um, some clients are like, you know what? Just check in with me like a few days before you need to present something and then we'll schedule it and go from there. Um, same thing. Some people like meetings being scheduled. Last minute like just get on my calendar whenever and some people like you're not gonna get on my calendar unless you do it a month in advance Yeah, those are all All good ones.

Catelin: I think to the point of speaking up to valuable and timely feedback, yep

Rich: tip number two

Catelin: really Really important, and I think you could take this even back to like a smart goal, right? Specific, measurable. Mm-Hmm. , uh, accountable. I can never remember what all of the smart things are, but you got it. Specific and measurable.

Rich: Relevant. Relevant and timely are the last. Thank

Catelin: you. It was like relatable . So be

Rich: specific. I don't like it isn't feedback.

Catelin: That's not feedback. That's not opinion. It doesn't feel like our Why don't you like it? Yeah, it

Rich: doesn't feel like our brand is getting better, but it doesn't feel like our brand because it's too cartoony.

Rich: That's specific feedback. Now I know you don't like the style of the design or something like that. Um, I told you not to use green. That's, that's specific feedback. We used green. You told us not to. Yep. Got it. We shouldn't do that. And hopefully we don't do that. Um, but prepare for your agency to come back and say, but here's why we use green and here's why we think green is right.

Rich: Um, it could be so specific, specific, specific. This is the hardest one. I think But the more specific a client is, yeah, the more specific they are, the less time we'll spend correcting it and moving forward and revising and the cheaper it is, then the less specific you are. And the more we have to iterate, the more expensive it's going to be because it's going to take more time.

Rich: All right. Constructive. Don't just criticize. I hate everything.

Catelin: This is tricky for me because part of the specificity is also constructive. It is. And so like offering suggestions isn't always the best choice when it's like I wish it was. This size and these four colors and like sometimes that can like pigeonhole.

Rich: You don't want to get into creating it yourself in your feedback or doing like sketches and drawing things up. I mean, if you've got something in the wrong position because from your brand standards or whatever, you can point that out. Um, I think with constructive though, it's, it gets, it's really tied tightly to specific to your point, Caitlin, um, you have to give feedback that can be acted upon.

Rich: Yes. Not just random feedback. Yeah. Um.

Catelin: And do it in a timely fashion. Yep. That's the biggest thing. Uh, especially if you are trying to be held to a project timeline that is as soon as possible from point number one. Which hopefully nobody is allowing you to do. But then you sit, then you sit on feedback for a week or two.

Rich: Yeah, and.

Catelin: Or many.

Rich: And there's, there's the take a pause, sleep on it, think about it, whether you love it or hate it. Cause if you, even if you think you love it, the more you spend time with it, there might be, you might really, really like it. And there might be still be some things that need to be improved and you got to iterate on those.

Rich: Um, but don't like, especially if you're like, if you sat on it for a couple of days and you're like, God, I just really hate this. Like write down why you hate it, why it's not working and get on the phone. As soon as you have that information, because the sooner you get on that, The sooner it can be like reworked and brought up, brought back up.

Rich: Same thing. If you love it, we love finishing a project early. We've had clients who are like, you know what? You nailed this. I really love it. Um, let's move forward. And it's like three days early and we're like, great. That's fantastic. We'll pull things forward if we can, and we'll move forward. Um, and then to that point of being timely, be accessible, be available.

Rich: Um, make sure that your agency understands your questions. Some things need to be discussed. It's not just lobbed over in an email back and forth. Um, those emails back and forth, my rule of thumb is generally, if it gets into more than a chain of like four, you should get on a call and talk through it because you're not aligning.

Rich: The email should align within two or three emails. Um, like this is my feedback. The email back is like, okay, got it. This is what I'm hearing you saying and what we're going to do. Response is yes. That's correct. Those are great. If you get back and forth into, no, I don't think you're understanding me.

Rich: Right. Then it's like, okay, let's get on a zoom call and talk through this.

Catelin: I prefer email because I like to be able to like read and reread, um, and have like a concrete example, but I know that that's not every client's preference.

Rich: Yeah. I mean, you'll get a transcript of your Zoom call. You can reread it. Um, tips number three, I like to just call know thyself. What are you good at?

Rich: What aren't you good at as a client? Um, your agency should also know this about themselves and ideally they are filling in for your weaknesses and enhancing your strengths, um, know what you're good at, know what you're not good at, uh, and be realistic about it. Maybe ask somebody else. Because sometimes we're not the best at judging this for ourselves.

Rich: Right.

Catelin: So true. That's so true.

Rich: Yeah. I mean, and you hired the agency for their knowledge and skills. So trust that if you lose trust with your agency, that's a serious conversation and you're probably going to end up parting ways unless you can pull things back together. Um, but yeah, you, you're paying them for a reason.

Rich: You want their knowledge to enhance what you do, enhance what you know, um, and enhance your brand. Um, and go ahead.

Catelin: As I say, number four to me kind of goes back to number two, where you're providing clear direction up front, up front, but it's also happening throughout the process, and I had an experience where this was just within the last couple of weeks where, you know, we had initial feedback was this is spectacular, and then the client kind of sat on it and said, actually, here are some things that are challenges for me.

Catelin: And, you know, we kind of spent some time explaining why we did some things a certain way and really kind of getting through that, like, challenging part where it was like, we were maybe kind of missing the, missing the mark on both sides. And, you know, One of the things that I just tried really hard to do, like I was nervous going into the meeting because like my whole job, right, is defending the client while also defending our creative

Rich: goals.

Catelin: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, um, and I love and care about the people that I work with. And so like that is almost always my first priority is like supporting them and believing in their work. And then how do I like Mediate basically between those two things when tensions are a little bit high and I just called it out and I said, you know I think we can really figure this out.

Catelin: We can work through this and like having a tricky sticky conversation is It's really going to just end up helping everybody on the other side of it. If you can get through that, that icky part and truly it did.

Rich: And it can strengthen the relationship then you've been through some adversity. Um, and I love, like, you've got the skills for that.

Rich: You are uniquely qualified to do that. Um, I mean, there's other people who can do it as well, but you do have the skills for that. Um, you just gotta channel your inner Brene Brown. And Yeah, work through it. Um, and keep it

Catelin: a little gentle parenting. Here are your choices. Yeah. Open. What would you like to do?

Rich: keep it open and positive, right? Yeah. Like moving forward. Yeah. Um, and so I like that, like assuring them that like, you know what, this isn't insurmountable. We can work through this. We just need to have a really good discussion. Yeah. Um, that's a really good one. I like that. Um, yeah, I think the other one,

Catelin: so sweet.

Catelin: Zach says, you're not just advocating for the creative team. You're advocating for what's best for your client. And that's really true kind.

Rich: It is true.

Catelin: Are we gonna cry in the compliment corner now?

Rich: Okay. Oh no, oh no. Um, I think making sure, the other one would be making sure the agency has all the relevant information up front.

Rich: Yeah. So at the start of your project, the more they know, yeah, the more you're injecting things as the project's going, the more you're risking rework and rework means more money. Yes. So you don't want to, um, to run into that. Um, yeah, the last one is a great one. Clear communication channels, ideally a point of contact for communication.

Rich: Um, I would,

Both: I would also

Rich: add to this to, um, designate a decision maker. If you've got a team and you've got, And the team isn't aligned. Who has veto power? Who is the one? Is it your director? Is it your VP? Is it your CEO? Like who's the one that actually can make the decision?

Catelin: The single source of truth.

Rich: Yep. And there's a really great story. And I've told this a million times, um, with David Ogilvie way back in the day where, um, can't remember the brand, can't remember the details, but he basically went in with a pitch and sat down. Um, Um, and there were like five executives across the table from him and he put a bell in the middle of the table, like one of those ding, ding, like at a hotel or whatever, bells, um, they're fun.

Rich: Bells. She rings

Catelin: it at Aldi every time. I'm like, they're sitting right there anyway. Sorry. So,

Rich: um, I'm sure they're used to that with kids. So yeah, he put a bell on the table and he said, Hey, to make this, uh, so we don't waste each other's time. If at any point either of us. See a deal breaker and determine we can't work together Ring the bell and no hard feelings.

Rich: We'll just walk away and it won't work and they were like, okay They had a couple of conversations and he said, okay. My first question is Who is the decision maker on this marketing account? And the five people across the table said, Oh, we all are. David Ogilvie rang the bell, walked out. You can't have five people making a decision.

Rich: Um, you need to, you can have five people giving input. You can have multiple points of view, but somebody has to make the decision. Um, and clearing that out, uh, up front, um, is very, very, very important.

Catelin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it just like stresses me out. It stresses me out, but like, I'm like, oh, it makes me, it also like in, you know, past relationships that have gone.

Rich: Sideways?

Catelin: Sour. Yeah, sideways is maybe better. Where, you know, I was communicating one thing to my point of contact without realizing that that wasn't necessarily thinking about the chain of command. Or it was being translated or misunderstood at higher levels. And that kind of turned, yeah, like you said, turned things around.

Catelin: And by the time we figured out that like, Oh, this was a translation problem or, uh, you know, an internal situation on the client side that we had no control over. Um, it was kind of too late. So, um,

Rich: Yeah. And that's where you've got to, that's just that clear communication channels and as a client helping your agency understand how you communicate, how you work together, who's going to be on calls.

Rich: Who's not. Who's relying to things. Do you want transcripts? Do you want meeting reports? Do you want notes? Like how does that work so that you make sure you don't get in that, that he said, she said situation or anything like that.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: Those are good ones. So, um, basically be realistic, give valuable and timely feedback.

Rich: So be honest, be open, be punctual, uh, know thyself and make sure the agency understands that. And then, uh, clear direction, clear communication all around. So those are, um, good ones. Some subsets, but for, for good tips, um, to just have a really good relationship. And honestly, if you hit these things out of the gate, you're going to be set up for success with your agency and they're going to feel better and they're going to take the appropriate risks for you.

Rich: And they're going to push things forward. Um, and you're going to get great results, you know? All

Catelin: right. That the, the communication piece is just the biggest one for me. Like we don't know, we don't know. It is the biggest one.

Rich: A hundred percent.

Catelin: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Uh, you can always find us at antidote underscore 71 we're on the threads now Caitlin.

Catelin: Did you know we are

Rich: we are on the threads the threads net?

Catelin: We're not calling it the threads I'm calling it the Threads. Okay. Is this the geriatric? It's like the interwebs on the interwebs

Rich: on the threads. No, I don't think we've posted anything on threads yet. Um, but we do have an account there. Um, we are not on blue sky yet, but I probably need to correct that.

Rich: Don't

Catelin: do that. Do we need another account?

Rich: Yeah. I mean, blue sky is where all the Twitter refugees are going right now. A million of them signed up one day last week.

Catelin: Twitter refugees. Imagine the comparison. I don't know that we have time for that. You can still find us at antidote underscore seven one.

Catelin: And if you have a question you'd like to send our way, you can go to cta podcast dot live to send us an email or, and this is the most exciting one. You can leave us a voice message on our hotline at four zero two. 402 718 9971. You're like a little interrupting cow over there. Your question, we'll make it into a future episode.

Catelin: And if you are one of the first 10 folks to give us a jingle, we'll send you a little free gift.

Rich: And since we started that promotion, we are at zero calls. So, uh,

Catelin: I mean, well, it could still, it could still be you.

Rich: Yeah. It can be you. Um, it could be you and nine of your close friends. If y'all get together,

Catelin: you could get all your Christmas shopping done.

Catelin: If you,

Rich: Oh, you could just give people our cocktail book. Just like call in with a different alias. Like ask us 10 questions. You'll get 10 copies. Just let us know. So we can put them all in the same envelope and not have to pay. That would be great. All right. And we will be back. Um, we are into the holidays, but I think we're going to power through the holidays every week.

Rich: We'll let you know if we uh, If we skip an episode here or there, but the current plan, oh my goodness, I am a hot mess today is, um, I know we're going to do

Catelin: a little hot toddy and I think that's what I need

Rich: to cure my hiccups. Um, and we are going to, without consulting with each other, predict some digital marketing trends for 2025.

Rich: I have my first one already. I don't have, I think Zach wanted to see each come with three just in case. And he's going to bring two, two, two to three. Okay. I think I have one be

Catelin: okay with two. I might be okay with two. I feel

Rich: like that's going to fit the time anyway. So, yeah. All right. So we will see you next week with the hot toddy as we get into the holiday season deeper and, uh,

Both: digital marketing

Rich: trends.

Rich: Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving.