93 - The Worst Web Design Trends That Need to Die

Rich: Hey Zach. How are you today? Hey, we're back. Um, once again for anybody who missed the last episode, I think that's when we talked about it. Um, well actually, uh, or a couple episodes ago. I don't know. Uh, Caitlyn is taking a little pause. She's doing a special, um. Special project for us. And the first of those just came out on Thursday, May 8th, it was me.

So we're doing employee spotlights. And so Caitlin is spearheading those and I was the first Guinea pig for that. And that is out there, uh, as of May 8th. You could find that on all our socials and everywhere. But today we're back to, uh, a different format. So Zach's my cohost, and we are gonna talk about web design trends that need to die with

Zac: with Jesse.

Yep. So Jesse o, chief Creative Officer,

Rich: will be here. Um, as you may know, if you've listened to the podcast for a while, um, and gone through things Jesse hates, things Jesse loves. Uh, those are two episodes from the past. Uh, he has opinions, especially when it comes to design and web design, and he is, uh, very qualified to give those opinions too.

Um, I don't think his advice has ever steered me wrong in design. So,

Zac: and some of these are pretty bad. Uh, he shared 'em with me beforehand. It's a lot of fun going through them. I was, something that he also shared with me was today's drink, which isn't a cocktail I wondered. So, yeah, so it wasn't a cocktail.

If we were gonna do a cocktail, it was gonna be something super simple like a whiskey. Neat. And we also debated doing, that's

Rich: for his spotlight. His whiskey need is for his spotlight. That's amazing. There

Zac: you go. That's a great one. But we also talked about maybe just being funny with it and doing a co light.

We found this happy medium where we chose a local craft beer. This one's from Jackson Street Brewing. It's called, forgive me if I say this wrong, Tate Mata. It is in their words, the official Mexican style beer of El Kamal. I did not know what Mima was. I talked to Ri It is apparently their Mexican, uh, restaurant kitchen within the brewery, so you can order food from there.

Oh, I've heard it's really good. Yeah. I had no idea that existed, but. Pretty awesome. Uh, it was designed by their in-house kitchen staff and it pairs really well with tacos and burritos, so it's just a solid Mexican lager. Sounds great to me. I'm. I really want to try it. Nice. Next time I'm in Sioux City.

But it's nice to have simple drinks like this and support local businesses. So,

Rich: well, you gotta go like, wasn't it like 20 minutes north of Sioux City to Jefferson, South Dakota? If you're gonna have this,

Zac: this is, this is Jackson Street, not Jefferson. Oh, this is Jackson Street. Nevermind. Oh my gosh.

Rich: Too many, too many breweries.

Like remember when City had no breweries? Like there were none up there. And now it's like. Swing a cat and hit a brewery. Don't swing a cat. That's not very nice. So yeah, the t ma so funny. There's a brunch place in DC called Tate with two e's, T-A-T-T-E, like latte, and it's like a coffee shop, tea shop.

They've got like sandwiches, brunch. It's really good. Um, and for DC it's not terribly priced. Um. I actually love their tuna sandwich. It's one of my favorite things.

Zac: I really wanna try the food at Jackson Street. I didn't realize they had that Ri was really hyping it up. I'm, I was kind of getting excited about it.

Rich: So when we were there for our holiday party, um, like a month ago, um, I noticed like when you go back to the bathrooms, there is a kitchen and it's got a little sign that says, I must say Elko Mall. I'm sure. But yeah, like, why didn't we have like giant plates of tacos? Probably. 'cause we just ate dinner and it was like 11:00 PM right.

It must have had. All right, so I think this is, this is an interesting one. It's a very simple one. We don't have a recipe. You just go there, get a ma, they'll put it in a glass for you and you drink it.

Zac: Yep. So, perfect. Uh, perfect beer for spring of summer, all well's. And you, she some tacos. Will you get it?

But yeah, let's get into it.

Rich: Let's just cut this short and get into it with Jesse.

All right. And we are back and Zach is sticking around. Uh, he'll jump in, uh, at some point. 'cause I know he's got opinions about websites. Clearly. Who doesn't have opinions about websites. We all use them. Right? Uh, so Jesse, Hey, welcome. Hey, thanks for having me back. So, I assume you went to Jackson Street and had a mata at one point.

Jesse: I, I did, I did. I've been really into like the Mexican laggers, the last few, like months I guess. It's, it's hitting the spot.

Rich: That's interesting. Like it's, it's fun to me that like a Sioux City brewery is doing a Mexican style lager, um, right there. They're, they're generally like darker, right? And a little bit heavier.

Is that, am I getting that right or no? Oh, they kind of weird. I'm not a beer drinker, so I could be complete. You could just tell me I'm completely wrong.

Zac: Think of like a Corona sometimes. Yeah. That's kind of what I think of with like a Mexican lagger. Okay. Mm-hmm. And then there's like Model Negra, which is more of a darker one.

Uhhuh. So maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Rich: Uh, that's probably what I'm thinking of. Yeah. I don't know. Lagger just always makes me think dark and thick, but I guess I'm, that's wrong.

Zac: That's the wrong that it's light. It's more like a light beer. Like most light beers are laggers. Oh, okay. So that's probably a better way of thinking of it.

Rich: Okay. Well, my beer education is, is stepping up a notch here. Um, but let's do a little bit of education on, uh, web design trends that need to die.

Jesse: Yes,

Rich: Jesse, I know you came up with three great ones, so let's just get into it. What is your first one and why does it suck?

Jesse: Ooh, I don't know how familiar this term is gonna be for, uh, everybody, but it's called brutalist web design.

And if you are immediately thinking of like brutalist like architecture mm-hmm. It's the same thing, uh, based off of the same principles. It's very, uh, almost kinda like shock value and very rigid. Um, and when you apply that to web design, I don't know, something about it. Well, probably the rigidity, uh, just rubs me the wrong way and it, I don't think it fits with a lot of what people do.

I think there's a place for it, just like everything. But, um, for the most part, whenever I see it, I just kind of cringe.

Rich: Yeah, I always think like, uh, whenever somebody says brutalist, I think about like the concrete apartment buildings in some Soviet movie from the eighties. Like they're just sharp corners and cold colors and just brutal, right?

Like that's where the word comes from.

Jesse: Um,

Rich: yeah, so like

Jesse: throw that onto your screen, uh, and scroll through it for a while and it's just kind of jarring.

Rich: I've seen a few of those where like the theme is all black and white, like it's just a black background and there's like white lines and line drawings and it's sharp edges.

It, it does feel a little painful and I, I can't think from a marketing standpoint where that's a good thing. I. But, um, I mean, I'm sure there are certain websites that like, sure, that will work.

Jesse: I think I, I see it a lot with like art stuff, uh, whether that's like a photography, um, I. Like portfolio fashion, sometimes a little bit uhhuh gets into that.

Um, uh, if you're trying to be kinda like edgy, um, I think it's kind of pretentious. Maybe that's a little bit of a harsh term, but that's just always what I think of when I see it. Uh,

Rich: yeah, I think, um, I think if it fits your brand right, like if you're, yeah. Uh, really like, like there's some fashion that is.

I don't think they call it brutal is fashion, but it's all those like sharp lines and darks and blacks, and it's supposed to give you this like, feeling of dread. Okay. That makes, that makes sense. Or if you're an artist who's working in that style, that makes sense. But it goes back to what we talked about with, um, like, uh, jumping on trends.

This is a trend, right? Brutalist became a trend.

Jesse: Very trendy.

Rich: Only do it if it fits your core brand, like you have to do belong in that space. And, uh. Most people don't like know your, um, your candy bar doesn't need a brutalist website.

Jesse: Yeah, and I think like, usually when you're trying to sell something, at least, maybe even if it's just a service, like that's not really the vibe that you want to come off with most of the time.

Uh, like, like we've been talking, there's, there's definitely a, a place for it, but, um, generally you wanna put people kind of at ease and, uh, give them, you know, really. Ways to navigate around and I, uh, this just doesn't do it for me. So

Rich: yeah, it gets in the way of usability, like really fast. Um, it's just harsh on the

Jesse: eyes, so

Rich: that's exactly what you want.

I want to go to a website that no one wants to stay on, like not the goal

Zac: From like a functionality standpoint. Does it cause any issues too? Because it's always like, it seems like there's a lot going on with it, so it's maybe just like a bad idea. Like in terms of that too, would you say?

Jesse: I would say maybe not functionality, because they're all pretty simple as far as the, the backend, uh, goes for most of 'em.

Um, but I feel like functionality, it usually kind of confuses people about where they're actually supposed to interact with things because. It's all kind of vague. Um, there's a lot of like big text and everything's kind of spread out and uh, sometimes there's stuff all over that you can click on and there's no cl I think, okay, here's, we're kind of drilling down to it.

It's, it's really the hierarchy that's kind of messed up for me, um, because you lose that. Like, read this headline, look at this button, click this button, and. I think it's on purpose that they're messing with that, but I think that's the part that kind of comes in and wreaks havoc on a, on a lot of, so it's sacrificing

Zac: kind of the best practices just to match like an aesthetic.

Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. For shock value, basically.

Rich: I mean, I think about it as humans just going through life. Like we rely on colors and shapes and cues and differences to drive or navigate or walk somewhere or just look at something, you know, and read something. Um, that's a good one. Like I, I've seen a few of those.

I think I'm seeing it less. Thank goodness. Um. You're gonna, Jesse's like, yeah, let me send you a list

Jesse: there. There is, maybe we can put that in the notes somewhere. There's like a big archive of 'em that you can just kind of scroll through and if you're unfamiliar with, uh, what they are, it gives you a really clear idea just by scrolling through.

Nice. And then

Rich: you can avoid it in the future. Please.

Jesse: Yeah. And then send us it or something so we can rag on it in the office.

Rich: Absolutely. Okay. So number two, I completely get and agree with you on, but um, I have some thoughts on it, but go ahead and tell everybody what is your number two.

Jesse: I kind of figured, uh, and I'm, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on number two, but it's popups.

Um. They will never not be on a list of things, uh, for websites that need to die. For me, I think, um, just like the brutalist and especially for like on the opposite end, for people that are trying to sell things, I get the, the necessary evil of them. Um, and I think there's a good and bad way to do them.

And that's probably where, where we agree, rich, um. I think when they're, when they're really bad and where I get frustrated with them is, uh, they're poorly timed. They take over way too much of your screen and they're really frustrating to try to like get out of.

Rich: The thing that I hate is the new thing where, and I've seen this on so many, there's one website that does it, and I can't remember what it is, but it's something that I go to a lot.

The popup comes up and you cannot find the X because it's like a dark gray X on a black background or a light gray X on a white background, and it's just, or they move it like they put it on the left. Oh, they move to the

Zac: right. Yeah. Um. They have fake ones too, don't they? Where it's like actually like if you click on it, it's like actually the ad that's like the worst.

Jesse: Yeah. The spammy ones like that are specifically terrible

Rich: and I do hate 'em on like especially on news sites where you're like scrolling and you'll get a popup and then there's a popup behind the popup and then another popup and it's like, I'm out. Like you. First of all, you seem like a spam website that's just trying to drop cookies and whatever, which is what they're doing, but yeah.

I, I agree with you that most people misuse popups. Um, I do, and I appreciate you acknowledging that from a lead capture standpoint, it can be helpful. But here's the deal with that. You don't have to do a popup. You can do a slide down, a slide in a slide up, like you can make it. Visually like, like ours, I think most of ours I think slide in in the lower right corner.

Mm-hmm. Um, and you see them, you catch them out of the corner of your eye. It's not like you miss it. And if you wanna engage, you engage, but you're not forced to close it. Um, which is the other thing, like they can close on their own, like

Jesse: Yeah. If

Rich: I don't

Jesse: do

Rich: anything.

Jesse: Yeah. And I think like. When they are right in the middle of where somebody is reading.

Like that's my biggest thing too, is like if I'm looking at a product or reading an article and they pop up right in the center and like disrupt what I'm currently doing, uh, that's when I get frustrated and I will almost bounce just outta principle.

Rich: Yeah, I mean, and I think that it's like, it depends on the site, right?

Like so we're used to them on retail websites, but you gotta gimme a deal Uhhuh, and if your deal is 10%, please don't bother. I'm not signing up for anything for 10%. I need 20 or more. Like it's just not happening. Um, it could really then,

Zac: sorry, it could really affect your bounce rates too. Uhhuh.

Jesse: Yeah, definitely.

Rich: Yeah, because the easier thing to do than fill out or click that popup is to hit like command W on my keyboard and just close that window.

Jesse: Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. So I get from, especially from like a sales standpoint, like, um, and even as a consumer, like if there is a 25% off. Sure, I will acknowledge that. But if it's for something that's not relevant to what I'm doing currently, um, and maybe time that well enough, like if I'm on a specific product page, not when I'm on the homepage just seeing if I'm, I.

Interested in the product at all, like maybe time it a little bit better. There's, uh, so many different triggers and things that you can do for those, you know, whether it's a certain percentage down the page, a time, you know, whether they click something. There's so many different things that you can kind of tailor it to make it not as intrusive.

And when people ignore all those and just throw it up right in your face immediately when you land on the page. Right. That's, that's terrible. It's just like,

Rich: ah-huh. It's like walking into a restaurant and they're like, here's the menu. Exactly. Read it exactly. It's like, no, I don't want to. Um, the thing that gets me is one of the things, and you're right, like time, time on page scroll, which location it's at.

Um, there's also how often they come back. So like, I don't have to see it every time I come to your site. I think ours comes back like every 15 days if you haven't filled it out. But also like, because we use HubSpot, if you're a known user. We're not gonna ask you to subscribe, like you just don't. So if we've dropped a cookie already, there's no point in it.

The one that gets me though is there's the exit intent popup. Would you move your cursor up to the menu bar? Here's what gets me about it. Like I don't really care because I'm probably gonna just close the window anyway if I'm truly leaving. If your menu is in the upper right corner. Of your website. So many times I'm just going up to the menu to like pull something down and it gives me the exit popup, and I'm like, well, now I'm gonna exit.

Like, screw you. I'm out.

Jesse: Like, yeah, the, are you sure you wanna leave? Like, yes, don't ever ask me that again.

Zac: Maybe I wasn't sure, but now I'm definitely sure. Thank you.

Rich: It is a little bit of the Midwest goodbye, right? Like, so I think we need to leave. I was trying to slap my, my thighs there, but I couldn't like that, uh, that Are you sure you wanna go here?

Take some, take some leftovers. You know, drive safe now. Like, yeah, no, don't need that in a popup. So the next one, so as you were talking about popups and talking about them like interrupting you, I was gonna jump in with something that I was like reading the notes and I'm like, oh no, like what I'm thinking about is this one and this one is evil.

Jesse: Yeah, go for it. So number three is, uh, something called scroll hijacking. So if you're unfamiliar with that, it's uh, where a website for whatever function they're trying to get across to you, it manipulates the scroll, um, to be whatever they want it to be. Which, if you're used to scrolling on literally everything else, it's, it's jarring and it's, uh, not intuitive because they, everybody kind of does it a little bit different.

Um, so it's, it's terrible for usability. Um, and most of the time, uh, I just try to get through it. Sometimes it's, maybe it's just a section on the page, but either way, uh, it kind of messes with a, with a user, I.

Rich: Yep. Um, I've had some where, um, and it was, it used to be Safari was the worst at it. Like some websites I would be scrolling and then it would just jump like a whole page.

And I'm like, so that's, I think the thing is if you fight it, you just miss everything. Mm-hmm. Because they're trying to do it and you're trying to do it and it just like falls apart. Um, I also hate it when you're scrolling and they. And I don't know if this is scroll hijacking or not, maybe it is. But when you're scrolling and suddenly something that has nothing to do with the article you're reading is there and you can't get past it, like you have to interact with it.

It's sort of a popup, but it's really a scroll thing. And then if you like scroll hard, I'm, I'm doing it on my phone apparently. Um. It'll jar it loose and it'll move up. But it's actually part of the page. But it just like, and I guess that is scroll hijacking. 'cause they freeze the scroll and force you to do something.

And I'm like, I just wanna get to the article underneath this. Like, stop.

Jesse: Yeah, it's, it's really bad because there are certain things that just. Are intuitive now for, for everybody. Clicking is one of 'em. Scrolling is another things that are just consistent no matter what browser or screen or device that you're on.

And when you mess with that, you really mess with people because it's almost like, like. You forget how to walk and, or, you know, you're walking on a really uneven surface and you're just like, what? What's going on? And it's, it's really, um, kind of unbalanced and just, it, it takes people out of the experience, which if you're trying to get somebody to look at something or be interested in a product, it can be really distracting.

Rich: Yeah, and it, I mean, it's like, it, it's sort of like if you watch a small child get on a moving walkway at an airport for the very first time, and when the walking is done for them, they have no idea what to do or an escalator, like the steps are moving, right? You just have to jump on one and it's like, it's disorienting.

It's a mildly terrifying, and you just, you have to completely change how you function to, to adapt to it and. That's not the point of web design. Like I should be able to enjoy, immerse, observe, use, and not have to change who I am or how things work. Mm-hmm. Like, don't, don't alter my reality, like Jesus.

Jesse: Mm-hmm. And we've been pretty good at giving the like. Or situation. So Zach will be familiar. We just had a example in our creative meeting that was one that used this really well because it in the background was a really well timed animation that was scroll triggered. So not necessarily taking over your scroll, but it moved and manipulated this like gear type.

Really complex. Oh,

Rich: so I got nugget. Yeah. Like if I, I get a reward for scrolling. I get this cool thing happening, but I'm still scrolling. Mm-hmm. Showing, and maybe we'll pop it up on works the,

Zac: so you can see it right now. That'd be kinda cool, but, okay.

Rich: Yeah, that'd be good. The screen recording edit on the YouTube version

Jesse: some magic.

So like, things like that are done really well and some people use it with products. Um, when you're diving in a little bit more and in deeper, maybe it's something complicated that you have to like, kind of scroll through to see. Um, but I feel like they always handle that a little bit differently. You're still scrolling naturally.

It doesn't like take it over. Mm-hmm. And where a big, long scroll only moves you a little bit. Like it, it feels more natural. You're still scrolling down the page. It's just moving something or manipulating something as you're doing it. So same kind of principle, but like a better way to do it, I guess.

Rich: Yep, absolutely.

And I was just like thinking, now I've got in my mind all these retail things that happen that they should stop doing. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just gonna put a pin in it though, like I'm not gonna up here. That's a whole nother episode that is like retail shopping website, like horrors. Mm-hmm. Um, so Zach, you can write that down.

We can do that at some point.

Jesse: I feel like you can do a whole series on that.

Rich: I know. Like there's just so much people do bad. Um, any final thoughts? Anything else you've got, uh, on your mind?

Jesse: Not really. I think just to, to recap, I think, um, we like to joke about things that, you know, trends that need to die and all that, but, um, if it fits for what your business is and what your brand is, there's always a place for anything.

Like you can make anything kind of work and fit with you. But in general, these are just some bad ones that are usually done poorly, usually don't fit with something and are just kind of. They usually have the opposite effect on, on users than what people, uh, tend to think that they're trying to do. So

Rich: yeah, so if you've got a good reason and it fits great, if you're doing it to be gimmicky, please don't, um, just don't.

If you, if you show it to somebody who's not you and it, and they're confused or disrupted, or don't know how to use it, like worst thing is if you a, an average person who's never seen your website, can't use it. Like they're just like, I don't like this. I don't know what to do. Um, and all of these, I think what's interesting is they're all a bit disruptive.

Well, they're all disruptive in some way, but they also all impact the user experience and then they end up impacting the effectiveness of your site. Right? Who wants to. Tank their site. I mean, it's like having, you know, soapy floors when you go into retail. Like, I'm gonna turn around and leave. Like, don't wash your floors while people are there, so.

Mm-hmm.

Zac: All right. All right. Well, cool. Thank you for your time. Uh, Jesse, it's a pleasure having you. Uh, thanks everyone for listening. As always, you can find our agency at Antidote seven one, and if you have a question you'd like to send our way, head to CTA podcast live to shoot us an email or as always, even better, leave us a voice message on our hotline at 4 0 2 7 1 8.

9, 9, 7 1. Your question might make it into a feature episode and, uh, usually Rich says the next episode, but I'm realizing that we kind of glossed over that. So the next episode I can is gonna be the Jefferson Beer Supply episode featuring Nikki Werner. Uh, she's. Awesome. I'm really excited for you guys to hear this episode.

So, yep. And

Rich: Jefferson Beer Supply that I was getting confused with Jackson Street Brewing, which are very, they're very different things, very different locations. Um, they do both make beer though,

Zac: apparently. Well, and apparently Nikki is really good friends with, uh, the people at Jackson Street, so I guess it wasn't too there.

Rich: A little bit of a kismet that episode. Um, we recorded it actually a little while ago, and I will tell you that's one of my favorites. She was great. I absolutely loved it. So check in on that next week. Um, and yeah, we'll see you then.