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24 Rosé

Start-Up Marketing Tactics

This week, we welcome Emma Bennet from Invest Nebraska to the show. We enjoyed learning more about her involvement with Intersect Co-working space and a few excellent start-up marketing tactics. We hope you enjoy the episode!

Rosé Wine

Who doesn't love a nice glass of rosé? It is one of Emma's favorite drinks and obviously requires no recipe. We recommend enjoying your favorite glass of rosé with us for this episode. You can also check out this handy list from Vinepair of the best bottles on the market. 

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Episode Transcript

Catelin:     We're back. Hey, welcome back

Rich:          I know. We just keep doing these. They just keep cranking them out one after one after one.

Catelin:     Right?

Rich:          So it is good to see you. I took a little break and I know that this episode, you spearheaded yourself while I was off in 80 degree weather in the middle of March, in Puerto Vallarta Mexico.

Catelin:     With socks on at the pool. I still can't get over it. I'm sorry if that's a sore spot for you.

Rich:          I wasn't at the pool. I was in a cabana by the bar near the pool and you had to wear shoes.

Catelin:     But didn't you have sandals?

Rich:          No, because I had my knee injury, so I'm not wearing flip-flops or sandals right now.

Catelin:     Oh, sure.

Rich:          I was wearing tennis shoes. So I had tennis shoes on, so I had socks on, and when I took my shoes off, I just didn't feel like taking the socks off. I was just sitting on a couch. So I didn't get in the pool. I didn't walk around or wander. I just sat on a couch.

Catelin:     My theory was that you just were starting the Nebraska tan a little bit early, like getting a good jump on that. Like the sock tan.

Rich:          Yeah. I don't really tan anyway. I either burn or I'm really white, like ghost white.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Rich:          Those are my colors.

Catelin:     That's where we're different on a lot of levels, because for me, the footwear is always a primary consideration. If you need some good orthotic, sandal solutions, please let me know. I'll send you some links. And then also, I just inherited my dad's skin tone, so I just get golden brown delicious in the sun. It's really delightful. My husband burns. He turns into just a little cherry, and then he's red for days then he goes back to white.

Rich:          That's where I am. So my grandma on my mom's side was Czech, and so she could be out in the sun for about three seconds and she would be just beautiful brown skin. The rest of me is Irish, English and Scottish, which is, we drink, we drink a lot.

Catelin:     I have that in common. Yep.

Rich:          Yeah, we just cannot be in the sun. And that's the side that I got. Can't be in the sun. So yeah. So who did you talk to while I was gone? What are we talking about today? What's going on?

Catelin:     Well, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with our favorite non-profit startup marketing coordinator, Emma Bennett from Invest Nebraska and intersect co-working in North Work, and she was as delightful as ever. So I'm really excited for you and all of our listeners to get to hear her perspective on startup marketing because she's smart and lovely.

Rich:          And I think, is this our first client appearance in the podcast?

Catelin:     Yes. Our first client guest. We've had some other guest guests, but our first client guest for sure.

Rich:          Oh, wow. That's fun.

Catelin:     We'll have to get a sash made.

Rich:          Honestly, I think from what I know of her, she would love that.

Catelin:     Absolutely. I think she'd wear it at least once.

Rich:          Well, and I'm super looking forward to this episode because I haven't heard it. I wasn't there for the interview. I wasn't a part of it.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Rich:          It'll be all brand new to me.

Catelin:     Yeah, so in Emma's honor, we've got a glass of rose, nondescript, doesn't matter what kind. She doesn't discriminate, which I love. We just need a pink wine.

Rich:          All right. I would just say, just please not Barefoot, just not that.

Catelin:     No.

Rich:          Costco has some really great roses for 7.99.

Catelin:     Okay. I like the Yes Way Rose, because it's a cute bottle. The label's good. I've gotten that one a couple of times.

Rich:          It also rolls off your tongue. Yes Way Rose.

Catelin:     Yeah. It's fun to say. Yes Way Rose.

Rich:          It sounds like a line from Schitt's Creek, actually. Yes Way Rose.

Catelin:     I could not agree more. And also the label is black and white, so it is very, very David Rose. It's on brand.

Rich:          Ah, yes.

Catelin:     We will not be drinking any of Herbert Linger's sparkling fruit wines.

Rich:          Fruit wines? I know. Oh my gosh. I was somewhere recently-

Catelin:     My sweet parents... can I just tell you, my sweet parents, they have a wine subscription from North Carolina, I think, one of the Carolinas. And they make some wacky seasonal stuff, so there was like pumpkin spice wine, and I nearly forbid my parents from, I was like, "Don't bring that to my house. I don't want that. It sounds terrible." But every time they talk about this winery, that's what I think of. I think of Herbert Linger's fruit wine.

Rich:          So I've never really thought of the Carolinas-

Catelin:     They love it, so more power to them.

Rich:          I've never thought of the Carolinas as a wine area.

Catelin:     There's some specific part of that area that has good dirt for grapes, I guess.

Rich:          Oh, maybe up the mountains or something.

Catelin:     At least that's what they were told when they did the winery tour. I don't know. It was enough for them to, they get six bottles of wine sent to their house a month, I think.

Rich:          Okay.

Catelin:     It's not nothing.

Rich:          I mean, I would say fruit pie, fantastic. Fruit wine, not so much, unless that fruit is a grape.

Catelin:     It's not high on my list.

Rich:          Yeah. I had, where was it?

Catelin:     I suppose we could mull it. I would be okay with a mold pumpkin spice wine if I had to.

Rich:          Yeah, that works. But then why not just do a cider?

Catelin:     There's a brandy in it.

Rich:          Just do a cider. It's good. Oh my goodness. So rose, and I think we're coming up on rose season. So rose is a short wine.

Catelin:     It's almost rose season.

Rich:          Yeah, because rose would've picked in probably October a little bit later in the year.

Catelin:     Oh, okay.

Rich:          And then bottled. And then you tend to drink it like that next spring. You can't store rose in your cellar forever. It just doesn't work. I guess there's a few that you can.

Catelin:     They're not sturdy enough?

Rich:          Yeah. It's kind of like whites. A 20-year-old Chardonnay is probably not going to be your friend.

Catelin:     Oh, okay. Interesting.

Rich:          Yeah.

Catelin:     I feel like I have a lot to learn as far as wine storage is concerned. So I look forward to continuing that discussion at some point.

Rich:          Yeah, the lighter it is, the faster you drink it. I mean, the less time it can sit and officially keep it in 60s.

Catelin:     I just drink it all at the same speed.

Rich:          Yeah. Keep it 56 degrees, 62 degrees. Although our friend Kevin, who's a winemaker, makes great wines. He just says realistically, if you're keeping it under 80, you're probably fine.

Catelin:     Oh, okay good.

Rich:          You don't have to go have a chilled room for your cellar. All right. So you and Emma talk about startup marketing tactics.

Catelin:     Yes.

Rich:          So if I'm a startup, I'm a new business, small business, I'm just getting going. Her thing is here's how we can help you market.

Catelin:     Yeah, And she gives some really good strategy advice for those just starting out. So if that's you, you're in for a treat. Also, just some good best practice things.

Rich:          Yeah. Good. Yeah, she's smart too. I love working with her.

Catelin:     She is.

Rich:          And I didn't even work that much with her, just sort of tangentially when we built that website.

Catelin:     Yeah. Well, I think Jessie and I got really excited because on our first call with her, she was like, "I'm not afraid of white space." And I think Jessie's eyes, it was the slot machine where they both turned into cherries and it was like hit the jackpot. Because so much of the feedback we get on websites specifically is it feels very far apart. There's too much white space, and I think sometimes he puts more white space than he wants knowing that he'll be able to compromise at a happy medium. Which is smart.

Rich:          I mean, that's smart.

Catelin:     Right? Everybody wins.

Rich:          Make the logo smaller than you're comfortable with. So when they say make the logo bigger, you can make the logo bigger.

Catelin:     Make it bigger then. Yeah.

Rich:          Well, good. I'm looking forward to this one, and I cannot wait to hear it, and I'll bet everybody listening to us ramble can't wait to hear it either.

Catelin:     Great. Should we get to it?

Rich:          Yeah. Music break, dance break, and then the episode.

Catelin:     Cheers to that.

Rich:          Cheers.

Catelin:     All right. We're back with Emma Bennett from Intersect Co-Working and Invest Nebraska, and I am so excited. It's nice to see you again.

Emma:       It is. It's been a while, but been busy, but good.

Catelin:     Yeah, welcome. I was going to say welcome back, but this is our first podcast moment. We've worked together previously. We helped Intersect launch a website about a year ago, right? Am I remembering the timeline ish?

Emma:       Yeah, I think so. It has been about a year now.

Catelin:     Yeah, because you've been up and running in Norfolk for about that long. I have spring of 22 in my head as your grand opening date.

Emma:       So we signed our lease in spring of 22, and then finished renovations actually in September. Yay, supply chain.

Catelin:     Okay. Oh, gosh. Right. Yeah. So I guess I should probably back up for our adoring audience. And do you want to just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got harangued into an interview with us?

Emma:       Yes. So I'm Emma Bennett. I'm the community development manager for, Invest Nebraska is our parent company, and I manage Intersect Co-working and Incubator in Norfolk, Nebraska. So through Invest Nebraska, we're a non-profit venture development firm. Basically, we manage a state fund of money and reinvest that into Nebraska based startups. This is like 30,000 foot view, but part of that then is also building the ecosystem of entrepreneurs throughout the state. That's where I come into play.

Catelin:     Yes.

Emma:       Invest Nebraska has been part of the Growing Together initiative in Norfolk, and in 2019 is when conversations started for co-working space, and then it was in October of 21, I got hired to start actually the build out and development of the space. And today, here we are.

Catelin:     Here you are. How did you get involved with Invest Nebraska? Is economic development your wheelhouse, or how did you land there?

Emma:       It's a kind of wild ride. My background's actually in marketing, and so I've spent the last six, seven years now working for predominantly HubSpot marketing agencies. When I moved to Norfolk in 2019, I was working remotely for one of those agencies and wanted my own coworking space, tried to convince my husband to buy a building, and luckily that didn't work. COVID would've been a wild ride. We just got married instead during covid.

Catelin:     It be really challenging, yeah.

Emma:       Yeah. But my background's in marketing.

Catelin:     That seems like it netted out okay, right?

Emma:       Yeah, it was good. It was good. So my background's been in marketing, but I was a remote worker, and then I've worked in co-working spaces and was very familiar with them. Really liked the idea of it for a quote, unquote "rural community." But that's how I got connected. I then met Candace Alder, she's actually the lead economic developer for Norfolk, who was involved with everything, and she was like, "Hey, I think you should be involved in this." So I kind of helped as a community member. And then in October, Invest Nebraska posted the position and one of my friends works for a startup that was involved with Invest Nebraska, and that's how I found the job. So, definitely a wild ride.

Catelin:     That's a really perfect melding of life and work history to end up in... That feels like kismet for sure.

Emma:       Oh yeah, there's no other way. I couldn't have tried, so I'll take it and I love it.

Catelin:     Yeah. That's awesome. You've kind of touched on this a little bit, but can you shed some more light on the mission that you're after at Invest Nebraska?

Emma:       Yeah, so we want to help grow economic development for the state through entrepreneurship. We have a really cool program through the prototype grant and the Business Innovation Act where there's this pool of money that we are able to manage as venture capitalists and invest in Nebraska based startups. We're industry agnostic, so we get to also work with a ton of cool companies. So it's a wide array. Really, I think our first investment was after 2011 when the Business Innovation Act came into play. I think 2012 was probably our first investment, and since then we've had over 80 investments in companies in the state, and it's all Nebraska based, which is cool. Because there's some really great venture firms around who will work with all of the Midwest, and we are specific to Nebraska. So it's a really cool leverage that we've got.

Catelin:     That's amazing. And that's state money then? When you talk about the act, that's like a specific to Nebraska pool? Okay.

Emma:       Yep.

Catelin:     And then does Intersect count as one of your investments when you're talking about that?

Emma:       No, but I should ask for that now.

Catelin:     Oh, yes, I have a great idea.

Emma:       Yeah, I've got a great idea and I know who to talk to. I'll take some more money, please. But we are a program of Invest Nebraska.

Catelin:     Okay.

Emma:       And we're the second program, the combine is our Ag Tech incubator, which is on UNL's Innovation campus. So the entrepreneurial side of Intersect was based off of the combine programming. So it's really kind of a-

Catelin:     That's right because you have kind of a separate industry agnostic, I guess, to use your vocabulary, incubator as well, that's associated with Intersect.

Emma:       Yep.

Catelin:     Okay. And how many businesses or entrepreneurs do you have enrolled in that right now? We've got a good crop of people?

Emma:       Yeah, I like that. That was good. I'm going to write that down for the combine. We've met with, I would say, over 15 different entrepreneurs since August of last year, which is great. And we've had a couple prototype grant applications, which we haven't had one in northeast Nebraska since 2016. So we're really excited about that.

Catelin:     Wow.

Emma:       And we've got three people that we're actively working with right now, kind of coaching them through either the prototype grant application or just kind of next steps, which is completely separate from the combine, which is doing fantastic. But to have two of those running has been really cool.

Catelin:     I feel, and this is outside of the economic development space, I don't know how much actual experience or knowledge I have, but I feel like there's this attitude, especially in the Midwest where it's like, "Oh, I wouldn't want to take advantage, or that's not for me, somebody else needs that more than I do." Where people are so hesitant to jump in with both feet when money or assistance or even just a knowledge base is available to them. Like, we don't want to inconvenience anybody, and we just want to bootstrap and struggle our way through it.

Emma:       I mean, truly that's the basis of so many of my conversations. People don't know resources exist. We have a really solid... There's a lot of banks in town that are very helpful for small businesses, but that's kind of where people think it ends. So we'll come in and say, "Hey, this is very tech focused. You could apply for the prototype grant and not even start using any of your own money." I mean, there's a match, don't get me wrong. You got to have some skin in the game. But then they're just a level of like, "Oh, I didn't know this existed." So being educators for founders is truly what we want to help with. And then at the end of the day, we'll come back and make investments in some of those companies. Some of them don't fit, some of them don't need funding, but we're going to talk to more people than we'll ever invest in, but that's okay, because that at least means we're helping.

Catelin:     And that's the nature of any business really. You're funneling down to a specific set of people, but just the idea that the visibility is maybe not there, but then even after the visibility is solved, there's still this idea that, "Oh no, I don't need help," or you don't want to take advantage of people. So I'm curious how often you bump up against that?

Emma:       A lot. To the point where it's like, we wouldn't be telling you these things if we didn't think this is something that you A, qualify for, or B, that is something that you should look into at least. And it's not free money, don't get me wrong. There's still some investment, you got to do some work. But getting people that, and then risk, everyone's so risk-adverse, especially when it involves their money. So once we get them convinced to do something, they're like, "But I don't want to spend my money." So those are the two biggest conversations we have of, "Nope, this is here for you. If you don't use it, we lose it."

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       This money sits here and it's just going to sit here until it gets used. So we might as well put it to use.

Catelin:     How long, based on the grant funding, how many years do you have left in your program?

Emma:       Lots. And it's something that's on the... I don't know if ballot's the right term. I've got to learn a lot of political and legislative terms that I never, ever, thought would be part of my vocabulary.

Catelin:     It's like a different language.

Emma:       Truly, shout out to Dan for dealing with all of that because whew.

Catelin:     What's up Dan [inaudible 00:19:31].

Emma:       But it's something that's always part of the budget for the year, so it's not going anywhere, at least not for a while, which is awesome.

Catelin:     In the foreseeable future. Yeah.

Emma:       And we're trying to-

Catelin:     I wanted to ask you... my understanding is that those things get sunset. It's not from year to year. It'll be like, oh, completely cut off where they'll say it's approved through X, Y, Z, and then they've got to reallocate or whatever.

Emma:       Yep. And there's some of that where it just kind of ebbs and flows from where the money's coming from. But for a while, and the cool thing is it's been around long enough now where we're starting to be able to report on returns that we've had.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       So that's really cool. I don't know off the top of my head how many exits we've had, but there's been a report on the Business Innovation Act in general that's been returning money. So it just came out. And the one figure that I can remember off the top of my head is that for every dollar that's invested, $10.68 has been returned. So it's coming back.

Catelin:     Into the Nebraska economy? That's spectacular. Anytime you can 10 X a state dollar, that's a really spectacular return.

Emma:       In Venture Capital, 10 X returns are what you want. So to be able to actually look at that and see it, in general, that's where it's at, is really great.

Catelin:     So can you talk to me a little bit more about what your day-to-day role looks like at Intersect? Kind of blending your inbound marketing expertise with this public outreach that you're doing? What does that look like?

Emma:       Yeah, so I am the face of the co-working space, which is super fun.

Catelin:     It's a great face.

Emma:       Yeah, it's got some makeup, got to love some touch ups. But I am the first thing people see when they come through the door. And really truly a facility manager as well with that. So people have questions on how to use something, the printer, I mean, I call for help on that one, but from everything else, getting their desks set up, doing that, finding which space works best for them. So I get to work one-on-one with coworkers, getting them what they need to work for the day. And then the other part of it is working and meeting with entrepreneurs or founders, people who think they have an idea, don't know yet sitting down and talking to them.

                  And then we actually just start diving into, what is your business idea? Let's work through a business model. Canvas is what we use for a lot of our meetings because people don't want to put a full business plan together quite yet, which fair nobody does. But getting to do that. And then the marketing side comes in as I'm the full staff for intersect, so I get to do everything. So it's also my job to get people in the door. So that's where a lot of the marketing activity comes in. So like I said, we've got a great website thanks to the team over at Antidote 71, and they didn't pay me to say that, but I do. No, I'm kidding.

Catelin:     I will take sponsorship dollars.

Emma:       I mean, anything you feel. But getting to do... I really run through just a gamut of the typical inbound activities. I've told this to clients on the agency side when I've been working with agency clients of like, "Oh, give it time. Your blogs take time to get traffic." Oh my God, it's so true.

Catelin:     You're drinking your own Kool-Aid right now.

Emma:       I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, remembering that like, oh, I've been the client, I'm now the client of my own self. I have to remember that it takes time and we are starting to see a lot more activity online, which has been cool.

Catelin:     That's awesome.

Emma:       That's where the marketing side comes in. And then with our combine companies, we have a teammate, Hannah, she's our communications director manager. She helps most of our startups set up their typical marketing checklist, and so getting to help her or sit in on those is always fun too.

Catelin:     That's amazing. Are there three kind of quick hits that you recommend to every startup in the marketing realm? What are your top three must dos?

Emma:       The first one we always do, which some people... And it is number one, is getting an email list. Even if you're not selling your product yet, if your product doesn't have a name, if you don't even have your product, having, in the startup world, LOIs, letters of intent, that's a great way to start getting some of those email addresses and saying, "Hey, this is coming. Sign up for updates." We did exactly that for the co-working space.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       But really trying to get people to understand having that email marketing list is a necessity. The next one, which is more of technical housekeeping, is once you have a name, buy your domain and get your social media handles, because there's nothing worse than starting a pitch deck going to say, "Hey, we have a name, we have a prototype. Now I'm going to go build a website" and you don't have the URL. That's a big bummer.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       So it's kind of a boring one, but it is something we have to remind people a lot.

Catelin:     I feel like we have this conversation every third week about, there's so many parts of business that are just unsexy and buying a domain is not sexy, but it's so necessary and it has to happen. It's nuts and bolts.

Emma:       Exactly. And a lot of times people are like, "Well, I'm not ready for a website." I don't care. Buy it now.

Catelin:     You don't have to build anything. You have to just own the... I've been trying to think about the analogy for this, where your domain is like your property taxes, and then your website is your house, so you can get a new house or remodel your house or change your house, but you have to always pay your property taxes on your home if you're going to own it. So just if nothing else, just pay your domain. And you don't have to own anything else. You don't have to build the house yet, but you need a place to put it.

Emma:       Exactly, and GoDaddy has sales every six weeks, I swear. You're not having to pay an arm and a leg for this domain.

Catelin:     No, it's like $12 a year or something. Yeah, it's peanuts.

Emma:       Exactly. Yes. I mean, I have 100% come up with a half-baked idea and been like, you know what? I would name it this. I'm going to go buy that domain.

Catelin:     Yeah, that's brilliant.

Emma:       A year later you get the email and you're like, "Oh, I forgot that I bought that."

Catelin:     Do you still want it? Yeah, I do.

Emma:       Yeah, that's a great idea.

Catelin:     I was listening to something about this guy that made millions, billions of dollars in the first internet tech bubble because he just bought a boatload of domains and then didn't actually have a plan for them. But then when people did, he was the guy, they'd come and want to buy. One of them was or something in that realm, like dating world, and this guy retired to the Virgin Islands or whatever because he just had oodles and oodles of money from domain buying.

Emma:       And you can never forget your social media handles because Live Golf, which is Hot Topic, but it's hilarious. There's a teenage girl, I think, out there, and her Twitter handle is Liv Golf, her name's Olivia or something. And I'm like, she's about to be so rich.

Catelin:     I bet her mentions are really weird. I don't know if I'd want it.

Emma:       I'm like, she's about to be so rich. If LIV Golf just says, let me buy that, and if I'm her, I'm going to be like, I have seen the purse on some of your golf tournaments. Yep, sure.

Catelin:     That's correct. That also does assume that Twitter still exists in six months.

Emma:       Fair.

Catelin:     I don't know if we have time to get into that today.

Emma:       I mean, so true. So then the third thing we always recommend is a well done website and your social media accounts build credibility. I know personally, I will check someone's Facebook and their website and compare information if I'm going to visit that store, that restaurant, whatever for the first time. So trying to get founders to understand it's work. Founders aren't web designers. We get it. There's options, but having at least a single page website, a landing page that just has information, you can provide updates as needed, have your email list, sign up on there, and have your social media accounts. That takes you so much further than you would imagine, especially when then they're getting ready to pitch. People are going to do their due diligence. It's hard to say this is a legit company if you don't have a good website or social presence.

Catelin:     And I think some people who've built businesses on social media platforms now are running into this too, where all of their IP exists on social and they don't actually own any of it. So it's like you have to do those things in tandem because the website is yours and you own that outright, but anything that you put on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter could be gone. So Twitter dissolves, and all of that's gone. You've done nothing to protect yourself or build actual content that belongs to you. So you have to do those things in tandem, if nothing else, or at least get yourself a website where you can house some of that stuff. Even if you're just off linking from your social pages. It cannot be overstated how important your own content repository is.

Emma:       And that's the scary thing, because we'll work with some people where almost everything is run through their social media accounts, and I'm like, that's great. You have a good following.

Catelin:     Spectacular visibility. Yeah.

Emma:       Love that. Throw out an email sign up, and then have people go to your website, tell them to find the info there because that's exactly it. The amount of people that have either just come to me for one-off questions of, "Hey, I'm locked out of my Instagram again." I'm like, this is your whole business. HubSpot is our entire point of sale system for the co-working space. If I get locked out of HubSpot, we're having issues that day. I can't imagine.

Catelin:     The difference is HubSpot's customer service is exceptionally responsive, whereas you just send an email into the great beyond when you're trying to contact a social media company like Godspeed, because you're not going to get a response.

Emma:       I've been trying to troubleshoot some Instagram stuff for the co-working space since July.

Catelin:     Oh my God.

Emma:       Oh, yeah. I've given up a few times. I'm like, it's not important. I don't care. People can't tag us. I kind of care, but they can tag my account, just put in our address. That's about it.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       And you're just never going to hear back. So yeah, and it seems the pushback we get is people are like, "I'm not going to post on social" or "I'm not going to post a blog." I don't care. Just having something there is where we really like to start, and like you said, you can link over to it, not a big deal. It's pretty simple.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       So getting over that hump of, I'm not a marketer, I don't want to do this. I don't know what I'd put on there. It doesn't matter what you would put, just remember your customers. At the end of the day, this is something you have to do early on to make sure when you are ready for customers that it's there.

Catelin:     Yeah. All right. Last question. If you were speaking directly to an entrepreneur, a startup CEO, what is the one thing you want them to take away about marketing their company? It feels like those three button this up, but if there's like one exclamation point you can put on it?

Emma:       Ooh.

Catelin:     Putting her on the spot. It's the hot seat.

Emma:       It is the hot seat. Yeah, those three are all together, but it does come to your brand, so your name and your URL, just understand what those are. You have to be comfortable and proud of that, and that's what also is going to drive your passion to continue, because startups suck. They're hard.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       It is. So you have to have something that you really, really care about. And if you're not confident in the name, if you're not confident in what that brand looks like, telling people to join our email list, it's not going to go well. Trying to find a website or social media accounts that are going to make it feel better, finding a handle, that's going to be hard too. So really understanding what your brand is and owning it, and it can be abrasive, it can be friendly, whatever it is, you have to own it, from the very high level marketing side of things. And maybe with that, own your brand, but then don't be afraid to start. You have to start. Everyone starts somewhere. It's not perfect.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Emma:       Marie Forlio, one of my fave gal pals to follow.

Catelin:     Yes.

Emma:       It's progress, not perfection gets me through my days.

Catelin:     Yes.

Emma:       And truly explaining that to people, because in a startup, you're continually pivoting and pitching. You have to do that for yourself too. Your brand is just as important, so always start, even if you don't think you're ready.

Catelin:     That's really spectacular advice. I'm going to take that home.

Emma:       There you go. Love it. That's what I'm here for.

Catelin:     Emma, thank you so much. This was such a pleasure.

Emma:       Well, thank you for having me. I loved it. It was super fun. Yeah.

Catelin:     Awesome.

Rich:          That's it for another episode of Cocktails, Tangents and Answers.

Catelin:     We hope it was as much fun to listen to as it was to make.

Rich:          You can find me on Twitter or Instagram at @RichMackey. I try not to make it too difficult. It's just my name. And you can find our agency at Antidote underscore 71. That's A-N-T-I-D-O-T-E, underscore 71 on Twitter and Instagram as well.

Catelin:     And you can find me at home sipping a craft cocktail prepared by my in-home bartender. It's my husband.

Rich:          We'll be back with another episode every other week and a whole new cocktail recipe, plenty more tangents and of course answers to those pressing marketing questions.

Catelin:     And if you'd like to send us a question, you can go to to send us an email.

Rich:          Or you can call our hotline at (402) 718-9971 and leave us a voicemail. Your questions might be used for future episodes of the podcast.

Catelin:     For now, like and subscribe and tune in next time.