65 - Revisiting Agency Red Flags

Episode Transcript:

Catelin: Oh, hey. Hey, Caitlin. We are back. Um, happy Great Pumpkin to you, uh, coming up here soon. Yes. Um, yeah, and that's our drink, the Great Pumpkin, which we'll figure out what that is in a minute, but, um. It's a flip. Oh my goodness. Oh, right. Because any time after Labor Day, is it after Labor Day or after fall officially starts, like the fall equinox, you should put a full egg in any cocktail and have a flip.

Rich: I did have one the other day. The idea of it. I know it just makes you gag. But then you drink it and you're like, this is so delicious. Yeah, I had one. I know stop. I had something that was, it wasn't called a flip, but it was something I don't remember what it was, but it had a whole egg in it. Then it's a flip.

Rich: It was just super frothy. It's like, it's like, um, It's like automatically a flip if it has a whole egg in it. It's like a, like a sour. Or, uh, you know what I mean? Like, okay. So it doesn't have to be like called a great pumpkin flip. It's just, is a flip. It's assumed. Yeah. Okay. Well, I had one then. Um, they didn't, I don't remember what it was, but it was, it was foamy and purple.

Rich: So it was really good. Yeah. It had some creme de violette in it of some sort. I don't know. Now I want to do an aviation as a flip. No, maybe not. All right. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how, so like, cause to me a flip is like, it's like got the warming spices. So like a spiced rum or like a, like a, like a bourbon.

Catelin: You know what I mean? So like, I don't know how I feel about like a gin slip. So with the Bartesian that we have, um, we have, there's one of the pods is, um, holiday spiced margarita. So it's got like the allspice and some of those holiday spices in it, but it's got tequila. I don't know. The tequila flip sounds weird too.

Catelin: Here's the thing, like pumpkin drinks in general, veer very quickly into like Pinterest fails Like, my mom had pumpkin spice wine from some, like, weird sounds terrible. Awful, right? Oh, God. And I'm like, why are you drinking that? And she's like, well, it was included. They, like, subscribe to some wine, like, North Carolina winery or something.

Catelin: South Carolina? I don't know. It's not great. It's not great. Yeah. Um. Yeah. I'm feeling Moira Rose here. And that's exactly, it's Herbert Linger's fruit wine, 100%. There we go. And every time, every time I see the bottles, I'm like, it's, it's fruit wine. Herbert Linger's fruit wine. I have another one. There's also a gingerbread martini.

Catelin: Okay. That you can do with gin or vodka. Then why wouldn't you just drink eggnog? Oh, I don't like eggnog. It's too creamy and heavy. So good. All right, so this is our Halloween episode, which is why we're talking about the great pumpkin. Yeah. I did. Um, I, I busted out the red wine. Finally, we went to like a yard, a yard party outside on Sunday, and I had a really nice cabernet.

Catelin: It was delightful. Oh my gosh. Delightful. Delicious and delightful. Archie's and Lamar's, so Archie's and Lamar's had a cab made in Paso. That is for their 75th anniversary. It's got the, the original steer on it and the original logo. Um, I bought two when we were there. Um, you can, each person could take home two bottles of wine, um, and it's cheaper than, uh, the menu price because they don't open and all that.

Rich: Um, but these were, they were 75 bucks each for the 75th anniversary. And I'm like, okay, I get it. It's a great cab. Like, I have two here and I'm going to drink them by myself because Brian's not here. So no one else can have the Cabernet. Um, yeah, I, I'm, I just, I love a flip. Okay. I need, like, I love. Not knowing what's in the flip and then, and then drinking it, but I can't, I can't see the egg.

Rich: Get to the flip in a minute, but first we have to talk about like, this is our Halloween special. So we're going to do spooky, horrifying things. Caitlin, red flags that you should watch out for when you select an agency. Don't go in there. You'll never come out alive. Exactly. Do you know where your marketing is?

Catelin: Oh my god. So I'm picturing like, like, um, like the unmasking of all of the Scooby Doo episodes, but I can't come up with a, with a good enough metaphor on the spot. Oh, how about you take the mask off? You take the mask off to your graphic designer and it's Canva.

Rich: So, all right, fair enough. So now I made Caitlin laugh too much. The, um, this great pumpkin came from New York city, uh, a bar called PDT, uh, Jim Meehan is the bartender who crafted it. Um, he does a lot with autumn flavors and finding the perfect fall cocktail. And I guess it's kind of what he's known for and they're known for.

Rich: Um, so, yeah. Yeah, let's get into it. It's two ounces of pumpkin ale, like Southampton. One ounce of Laird's bonded apple brandy. One ounce of Rittenhouse bonded rye. I think we've got Rittenhouse at my house. Uh, half an ounce of good maple syrup. That's another the real maple syrup. You got to get the good stuff.

Catelin: You better be from Canada or Vermont. Yes. And a whole egg. And then you garnish with some freshly grated nutmeg. And I got to tell you, there is nothing so good as a, like a little nutmeg on a rasp. Alright, so you're going to add the pumpkin ale, apple brandy, rye, maple syrup, and the whole egg into a shaker.

Catelin: Not the whole, I mean like crack it. Just the inside of the egg, not a whole egg. I feel like it's worth specifying. Yeah. Right? That'll be our first call and they'll want a cocktail. Shells and all. I put the whole egg in. You lied to me, I put the whole egg in and it was a cocktail. Uh, so you're gonna edit two of the cocktail book will now specify, put the contents of the whole egg in, not the shell.

Catelin: Crack a whole egg. All right. Pumpkin ale, apple brandy, rye, maple syrup, and the egg, yolk, and white into a shaker and dry shake. So that's just all of that stuff in the shaker with nothing else. Uh, vigorously. And, um, the original recipe says to shake the pumpkin ale as well, but we know not to necessarily shake fizzy things, right?

Catelin: Um, so shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake. JAY Be careful if you do, I guess. STACEY Yeah, don't explode it. Um, and then you can add the ice and shake again until well chilled. So what you're trying to do here is just emulsify the egg yolk, the egg white, and all of the rest of that into what becomes like a very like, yes, a full body, like very creamy and rich cocktail.

Catelin: And then the ice at the end to chill. Um, and then you can strain into a chilled fizz glass. What's a fizz glass? Am I dumb? I don't know what a fizz glass is. I guess we'll have to reference it. The, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna Google it fizz. We can, and people listening can just reference the, uh, art for the podcast.

Rich: 'cause that's always the glass. Um, including that rose petal glass. We actually nailed that one too. Megan nailed that one. I didn't, I know. Do have anything to do with that design? It's, oh, it's like a, it's a, okay. Allow the cookies out. Drink specific glassware, fizz glass. It's like a, like a Collins glass.

Catelin: Okay. But I think it has something speci. I don't know. All right. Well, fizz glass, whatever that is. Yeah. Um, if you know, call us and let us know. Um, and then you can garnish the top of that with that freshly grated nutmeg. So you're going to get like a really nice head on the top. That's that full body, like foam cream.

Catelin: Deliciousness, and then just your little nutmeg right on top and then cheers. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's a that's a great pumpkin flip It's flipping great It's oh geez Wow, the puns are rich today last week we had good puns. I got puns today too much like a flip quite rich Much like me. I'm quite rich. I am. You are.

Rich: It's my name. You are quite rich. But, you know. With that, I could use a party break. And, uh, party. Maybe a break for me. I say with an R. And maybe just a short break to let Caitlin, uh, calm down a little bit. She's a mellow out. Uh. Not today, folks. Not today. Yes. She's gonna come back after the break the exact same way she is right now.

Rich: But let's take a break. And we'll see you back with, uh, Agency Red Flag. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Catelin: I have become,

Rich: Hey, Caitlin, how are you? Well, I'm in the

Catelin: haunted house that's full of fruit flies because we, uh, we have some, some little fungus gnats that live in the office. And I was just saying, I think they've gotten slower as the weather has gotten cooler because I have been on a killing rampage.

Rich: zebo traps? Yeah. They should start to fill up pretty fast. Ours is working great here and they don't smell or anything. No, they're really nice. Well, if you need more than I know, cause maybe we need one in that room. Um,

Catelin: maybe. All right. Agency red flags. If your

Rich: agency has too many bugs, that is a red flag.

Rich: It's

Catelin: not a red flag. It means they love plants.

Rich: Yeah. It's just, you know, and you get one plant that has those little gnats in it and then suddenly it's just everywhere. Yes. Yeah. So we're, we're taking care of that though. Um, yeah. Shall we,

Catelin: shall we talk about the first red flag?

Rich: Yeah, we did still

Catelin: a red flag

Rich: it is we did this one of our very first episodes I think was agency red flag something in the early ones So there's a couple of these that we're revisiting because we just still think these are relevant.

Rich: They

Catelin: still are true Yeah,

Rich: and we've got a few new ones that we didn't cover in that. So Yeah, first one you want to do the honors Caitlin?

Catelin: I do guaranteed metrics or results I can

Rich: guarantee you that first result on Google. No, no one can guarantee that. Google can't even guarantee you that. Um, and they should,

Catelin: that's

Rich: overpromising is the worst red flag for everybody.

Rich: Um, you're going to end up in a horrible relationship. I don't know why agencies do this. Well, I do. So there are groups of agencies, a lot of SEO places and peace people who do like, you know, things like that, who. Our churn and burn, right? They just want to promise you something, get your money for like three months, and then they know you're going to fire them and they're going to just keep doing that and repeat it and it's on volume that they like make it all up.

Rich: Um, you don't want an agency like that. You don't want a partner like that.

Catelin: No, it stresses me out. I also just think about like their, their client acquisition costs must be through the roof.

Rich: Yeah, probably. I mean, it just, yeah, it blows me away. Like marketing is art and science. It's like the combination of the two and nothing is, I mean, honestly with science, nothing is necessarily guaranteed because science learns from itself.

Rich: Right. And changes and adapts, um, we do the same thing. And what worked last week may not work again next week. Um, I had, uh, Uh, Facebook campaign that was going like gangbusters and the client was just making money hand over fist and Facebook made a change to their targeting and it all fell apart, like in 30 days and, um, took almost a year to recover from that, uh, which is wild, but we shifted money into other platforms because.

Rich: That platform wouldn't work for us. Um, so should they be able to estimate things for you? Yes, they should be able to give you some goals. They should be able to say, here's how many impressions we think you'll get. Here's how many clicks that should be. Um, but they can't guarantee it. Uh, no one can guarantee anything if they could, if any agency could, none of us would, the rest of us would just not be in business.

Rich: Everybody would work with them. Um, So that word I guarantee guaranteed run away, run away, run away,

Catelin: run away, get your money back. And also I think the other thing that frustrates me as somebody who has had to like come back from or help clients come back from those types of guarantees, it makes people so skittish.

Catelin: It makes our clients say like, Like we had one a couple weeks ago, we kicked off a new website and they were like, he said, thank you so much for listening to us. And like, not just spewing. And I was like, where have you been working? I was like, I'm so sorry. And we were remote. So I couldn't like pat him on the back or like give him a high five.

Catelin: But I was like, that's so awful. It just like, Yeah, and I mean, we've had the same

Rich: ones who are like, Oh, Google ads doesn't work for us. Well, maybe the way you were doing Google ads didn't work for you. Um, and if we, I mean, and sometimes it's like, okay, like, can you show me the campaigns? Can you give me access to view only so I can see what you were doing?

Rich: And maybe I can tell you why it wasn't working. Um, But yeah, so guarantees, eh, big red X.

Catelin: Yeah, it's a bad one. It's a real bad

Rich: one. But you do want metrics, right? Like, you want to have goals, you want to have metrics.

Catelin: However, don't only focus on vanity metrics.

Rich: And this is something, and as a CEO, um, and as somebody who has run marketing departments, this is something that a lot of senior leadership falls to.

Rich: They like the vanity metrics because

Catelin: Warm fuzzies, right? How

Rich: many followers do I have? How many impressions did we get?

Catelin: I will say, like, sometimes impressions can be helpful, right? Depending on what your goal is. Right, but it's secondary. If awareness is, you know,

Rich: The closer you are to the moment of sale, the more important the metric is.

Rich: So your cart conversions or your form conversions are more important than your clicks or your impressions, not the clicks and impressions aren't important because that fuels the formula, right? You've got a certain number of impressions, which is generally what you're buying. Um, you're going to get a certain number of clicks from that.

Rich: So the percentage matters. But of those clicks. You know, as you get to who fills out a form, more important, who, who filled out the form actually buys now I've got our, I care about selling, making money, keeping the business open and growing, and so. If they're not giving you metrics that lead to your ROI, whatever's important to you.

Rich: I mean, it could be foot traffic, right? If you're a retail location, it could be that foot traffic is a good predictor of

Catelin: sales.

Rich: So that might be not a vanity metric, but a good secondary metric, like a click or something. Um, the other one that's used a lot, say

Catelin: that again, the closer you are to the point of

Rich: sale, The more important the metric is so good.

Rich: So, and you think about like, think about retail and like e commerce and shopping cart, right? So like there's viewed product. Don't care. I mean, I can't, I do care. Cause I can retarget you and stuff, but like there's added to cart. Okay. Like, but I have. I literally have 200 things in my Amazon cart right now.

Rich: They're saved for later. Oh my God. It's my shopping list. It's my, it's my wishlist. Um, and sometimes I'll go in there and there'll be like 10 things in the actual cart and I've got to do like either save for later or delete to buy like the chips that I want to buy today, but I don't want everything else that's in my cart.

Rich: Cause like, it'll be your card is your card is 2, 000. And I'm like, I was just buying Pringles.

Catelin: Um,

Rich: but so add to cart is another one. That's a good indicator.

Catelin: But then

Rich: you've also got like, went to the checkout page, right? Cause from the cart, you've got to click checkout. Then you've got input your credit card info and finally finished the sale.

Rich: And then you've got, of course, didn't return on that other end of the flywheel. Didn't return the item, I guess. So, the other one that's a really good one that's really interesting and it takes your top level spend and your bottom level revenue and puts them together is called ROAS, return on ad spend.

Catelin: ROAS! It sounds like a, like an exotic vacation destination.

Rich: I always think that it's Rau's Tomato Sauce, like they're, the Rau's, like they make the really good pasta sauces, but it's Rau's. And that's actually a really good one to look at. It's going to be a really good indicator of where you're at. The other one would be your, your multiple.

Rich: So like, are you at 5x, 6x, your spend to revenue, which is usually how, how much you I was like,

Catelin: multiple of what? is

Rich: calculated. So if I spend a thousand dollars and it results in three thousand dollars of sale, in sales, that's a 3x. Okay. So you're not looking at your overhead, you're not looking at other things, you're really just looking at gross sales and gross ad spend.

Rich: That makes sense. So those are some good ones, um, that, um, We really like, um, e commerce loves the row as one, because if I'm getting a 10 time return on my ad spend, and I know that my margin is 60%. Yeah, good. Yeah, absolutely good. Anything higher than four is gonna be great for me.

Catelin: Yeah. At some point, just the, the Metrics behind business fascinate me.

Catelin: Because like you think that it's just like money in, money out, but really there are all of these ways. I know, right? I wish. I wish. I thought, I thought it was money in, money out, right? But there's all this other stuff that you have to kind of take into consideration. Layers.

Rich: You can have my job then, if you are passionate about it.

Rich: I

Catelin: don't want it. No,

Rich: All right. Well, then maybe not. Um, this, this next one can be a little bit controversial and I get where it's at and we're going to talk through it. So ownership of your ad accounts. So your Google ads, your Facebook ads, Instagram ads, LinkedIn ads, who owns those ad accounts. Um, Facebook's best practice is for you to create the ad account from the client business, uh, Uh, manager, and then you can add the agency as a partner.

Rich: Um, the thing I like about that with Facebook is when the agency has their payment methods, if you disconnect them as a partner, those payment methods also get disconnected. So, yes, so there's not that risk. Now, the other issue that people have is who has access to mess with stuff? Because if we're going to be held accountable and we're in there optimizing, you can't also go in and optimize without telling us what you're doing.

Rich: And so you have to have a lot of trust there. Um,

Catelin: this is why I get nervous about this one. And, um, yeah, it just, uh, We

Rich: have clients both ways our rule with Google has been because Google it's been very hard to extract your payment method You can get the account turned over but the payment method it's like almost impossible.

Rich: They've changed that now so there's actually literally a link where it's like Change who pays and you can transfer it to your client's account manager. So that's lovely. Finally, you used to have to do a support ticket. It was a nightmare. It was a mess. Um, but our rule with Google has always been if the client wants to own the ad account, totally fine.

Rich: Um, but we. The client has to use their payment method. Um, we won't put our credit card in there. We won't link it to our bank account, um, that type of thing. Now, if you're over 5, 000 a month, you can do invoicing and that makes it a little bit easier. Um, it, cause it becomes who the invoices go to. Um, but that's where that can be, um, a little bit tricky, but yeah, if they don't, if you don't want them to own, Or if you don't want to own your own ad accounts, because we have clients who are like, Hi, please just create it for me.

Rich: I don't want to do it for me. Yep. Yep. Yep. Totally fine. Just ask them if they've got a process for how that would transfer to you. You know, 50 years from now when the relationship changes, or whatever, there should always be. Clear transparency on what you own, what you don't own and what you get and what you don't get.

Rich: Um, so that's the big one there. And if they don't have answers to those red flag, big red flag, and you're also going to have trust issues and you really need to have that trust. Um, it goes both ways. I

Catelin: think kind of goes to the, to the next one, right? If you don't have, uh, Transparency in how Your agency is reporting or what the performance metrics are.

Catelin: Um, if they're hesitant to share detailed reports. Uh, you might want to check under the hood a little bit. Yeah, if they're just

Rich: giving you like green arrow up and to the right is your report. Okay, that's great. But what does that mean? Um, And different people, different clients always want, they want different things in their reports.

Rich: Ideally, you go back to those true metrics. You'll get the vanity metrics in the report too. Like that's how many followers do we have? Oh, okay.

Catelin: Well, I mean, cause that is still like, that still can be indicative of like where to go, but it's not the. It's not the, like,

Rich: meat. It's not the number one thing you should see.

Rich: But it does tell you if your social accounts are growing, if your mailing list is growing. Those are important, but what you've also got to get on there is what have we made from that? And if people are leaving, like, why? My biggest thing with reporting is I want the so what. Yes.

Catelin: I think about this every time.

Rich: Just, don't just tell me what happened. Like, I can go look at a dashboard and see what happened. I'm pretty smart about that. But I'm not in there every day. So what? Why did it happen? You know, what can we do about it? Um, and if you're not getting in there Any details at all, you're never going to get to the, so what, and you're never going to fix anything that's wrong.

Rich: Like I loved when an agency would come and say back when I was on the client side and they would be like, Hey, so this sucked and really tanked and didn't work. And here's what we think happened. And here's how we're going to correct it moving forward. But we're just going to give it one more month. And if it's still not working after that, it might just not work for you guys.

Rich: And we're going to shift that budget into something else. Great. Love it. Sounds fantastic. Um, anyone who can admit they're wrong, um, own that and give you, or even just admit that something didn't go right, own it and give you a solution and a reason. All day, every day. I'll take employees like that. I'll take clients like that.

Rich: I'll hire agencies like that. If I'm a client.

Catelin: Well, and there is something like. Something in that humility to like, that's a, that's a tough thing to admit. Right. Because especially when in this, like, I don't know, kind of fluid or, um, cut throats, maybe a little bit too intense, but to say like, ah, we screwed up or this isn't working the way we thought it was going to takes a lot of confidence and humility to, to own up to that.

Rich: And I think, like, I only get upset when somebody's like, well, it failed. Like, well, what? Okay. Like, and they're like, I have no idea why. And it's like, no. So I will tell you there have been moments though, when I've seen something fail and it's like, everything tells me everything where I'm looking at says this should be working.

Rich: I do not know why it's not working. Um, but for the most part, you can look at things and go, yeah, this isn't going to work, like it's going too broad. Like, like when Google display ads started really just, you know, Spam, spam, spam coming in from those everywhere. You go in and you're like, Oh, they've added new partners to their network that are broader, that are lower quality, like.

Rich: You know, we're also, you know, and also more impressions, you get tons of impressions with that and it's just going to result in more spam. Um, but we can move that budget somewhere else. We can refocus the budget to not be as broad. There's all kinds of things you can do.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: So, yeah, but you don't know it like and same thing.

Rich: Like there was a time when I like I had more credit card debt than I was making in a year and I just didn't face it. I didn't look at it. Yeah. Yeah. When I finally sat down with, uh, it was, uh, a credit, like a, it was a reputable, like clean up your credit kind of company. Um, and they did, they were like, okay, so like, here's where it's at.

Rich: And here's. Where you're at, and it's going to take you 600 years to pay this off. Um, and I'm like, yeah, and they're like, so we can give you this loan. That was like, it was like 40 grand. It was a lot of money and I was in my twenties. Um, but you have to cut up all but one credit card. And we're going to call all of those companies and try to reverse some of the interest from the past year to lower the amount.

Rich: We're going to basically negotiate a settlement, roll that into a loan for you and get it going. But again, if I hadn't looked at the reality, the really, really bad reality of the situation, I couldn't have solved it. I couldn't have sought help. Same thing with reporting. If something sucks really badly, if you don't know it and don't talk about it, you're never going to fix it.

Catelin: Mm-Hmm.

Rich: or like SEO start now

Catelin: or therapy?

Rich: It, it is,

Catelin: let us, let us do therapy for your marketing. Yeah. .

Rich: That's a very good way to do it. Right. Um, which gets me into the, the last one, which also is a good, uh, red flag for getting a therapist. Um, gut check. Yeah. You're, what is, what's the vibe? Are you vibing? Are you not vibing?

Rich: Does something the vibe feel gross about them? Mm-Hmm. . Do they just, Mm-Hmm. you, you just feel like maybe they're bullshitting you a lot. Yeah. Or they just aren't really genuine. Um,

Catelin: or. On the on the converse, right? Do they say oh my gosh, thank you for listening to me Yeah, you feel really good about the direction of the conversation and what they're saying and and how they're saying it And we use this

Rich: both ways, right?

Rich: Like so people should be doing this for us But we do this with clients too because we don't want to get the icks from a client I mean now if you've got a huge budget, then maybe we'll survive For a little while, but not really like we just, it's not going to be good. We're going to work really closely.

Rich: We're gonna spend a lot of time together. You've got to trust us. We've got to trust you. Um, and if it just, you're not feeling it. Then fine. Like my big thing is, do I want to go have a drink with these people outside of work when I'm not getting paid? If you weren't giving me money to do things for you, would I hang out with you?

Rich: Um, and most of our clients are a yes on that one. Um, And we have actually, like we do lunches, we get drinks and conferences, we have dinners. Um, all of those things, we have open houses and we invite them. I don't, if we ever had a client and we're like, Oh, we're doing an open house. I just don't want to invite them.

Rich: It would be a conversation we need to have about whether we should have that client or not. Same thing with your agency. If you don't want to hang out with them, you don't want to talk to them daily. If you're going to always read their emails as a negative bitchy tone, because email doesn't have tone.

Rich: It's yeah. Words on a page. It's we interpret that ourselves. Um, you really want to be able to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume even when tough conversations are happening, that they have your best interest at heart. And if

Catelin: I will say we're very fun to hang out with, and I can't lie for shit.

Catelin: So,

Rich: but

Catelin: if that gives you any indication of whether or not you should hire us,

Rich: I think on the converse of that, though, like if you're a very, You know, buttoned up, like, like formal stoic kind of company culture. That's probably not going to vibe with us. Um, you know, even like our financial clients do business casual and they're like, you know, Midwestern normal people, like, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Rich: Um, so just make sure that fits there. And if everything else is fine and your gut just says no, trust it. Just, just trust it.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: I mean, and if your gut says yes, um, I would go back around to some of these others. If you're feeling some small red flags, talk about them. Address them. If the agency can talk about them and explain them and talk about their process, you're probably okay.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: If they sidestep.

Catelin: Guys, it's more therapy.

Rich: It is.

Catelin: That's it. That's it.

Rich: All right. So

Catelin: moral of this episode, go to therapy.

Rich: Uh, is that not, is that not, I think that's, I think it's, um, hiring an agency is a big deal and you should really think about it and, um, if they're guaranteeing you stuff, red flag. If they only want to focus on vanity metrics, red flag, because they're not committing to your ROI.

Rich: Then, um, if they want to have a conversation about you, about how ownership of ad accounts works and a transition process, if they own the accounts for you and how they set it up, if you own the accounts for them, if they don't have any of that or won't talk about it, it's a red flag, um, high level reporting.

Rich: That means nothing. Red flag. Um, ask him for a sample report. We have a, we have sample reports for ourselves that we can send to people. That's always a good one to do. Uh, and then gut check. If you don't get a good gut check, walk away, walk away, walk away. All right, another episode in the can. Well, once Zach does his editing and adds the music and all of that.