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21 Dirty Martini

Things Zac Truly Dislikes 

Our producer Zac has plenty of things that he dislikes in the world of marketing. From overly-authentic content to crypto marketing tactics, his perspective as a content marketing coordinator brings unique takes that haven't yet been discussed on the podcast. 

Dirty Martini

We're sure some of you enjoy this cocktail as a guilty pleasure. Our guest Zac is not a fan of olives, hence why this cocktail could be added to the list of things he dislikes. If you enjoy olives, then this cocktail might be perfect for you. This recipe makes two, so you'll have to find a friend to enjoy it with.


  • 4 oz. vodka
  • 3 oz. olive brine
  • splash of sweet vermouth
  • 4 pitted jumbo olives
  • 2 oz. blue cheese


  1. Fill a cocktail shaker with a handful of ice. Add the vodka, olive brine and vermouth. Shake vigorously. Pour into two chilled martini glasses.

  2. Stuff each olive with a small piece of blue cheese. Thread the stuffed olives onto two toothpicks and place in the martini glasses.

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Episode Transcript

Rich:          Well, hey, Catelin.

Catelin:     Hi.

Rich:          I heard a rumor that Zac gets to be on microphone again today.

Catelin:     Zac is back.

Rich:          Yeah. So this episode, apparently we're not doing Things Zac Hates because Zac doesn't hate anything. Is that-

Catelin:     I think that's probably it. It's Zac's Dislikes, which I think is really sweet, or maybe it's like a social media, like a thumbs down situation.

Rich:          Oh, like a thumbs down?

Catelin:     Is that a call-out? We're going to ask-

Rich:          Is it a youth thing?

Catelin:     Maybe.

Rich:          The youths are calling them dislikes because of the thumbs down.

Catelin:     Yeah. I am looking forward to asking momentarily.

Rich:          Yeah. And we will. He's sitting over here with his mic muted [inaudible 00:00:46].

Catelin:     He is like the cat that ate the canary over there.

Rich:          So I think we got into, in a previous episode, one thing that Zac dislikes that I also dislike, which is olives and tapenade and those types of things, and I believe our cocktail is inspired by the dislike of the olives and I think if you made this cocktail with vodka, your husband would also dislike it.

Catelin:     Yeah, this isn't allowed at my house.

Rich:          No.

Catelin:     Yeah, we're not doing a dirty martini.

Rich:          Yeah. Our cocktail of the week is the dirty martini.

Catelin:     And here she is, six ounces of vodka, three ounces of olive brine, a splash of sweet vermouth, shake all of that together, pour in ... This is a double.

Rich:          Yeah, because of the-

Catelin:     [inaudible 00:01:33] two chilled martini glasses.

Rich:          Well, because yeah, it's nine ounces.

Catelin:     I was like, "That's a lot."

Rich:          So I was like, as you were doing that, I'm like, "Six ounces of vodka, sign me up."

Catelin:     Keep the rest.

Rich:          Just freeze it, keep it cold, put it in a glass, I'm good to go.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Rich:          You call that water.

Catelin:     Shake all of your liquid, pour into two chilled martini glasses or one very large other glass, stuff an olive with a small piece of blue cheese, and let's see. We've got four olives, so two and two, and then thread those onto a toothpick and pop them into the glasses.

Rich:          Yeah. So I love blue cheese, so the blue cheese and vodka. So you could just give me vodka and then a little plate of blue cheese cubes, I'm happy, I'm good. The rest of that nonsense, I agree with Zac, and no.

Catelin:     Yeah. Vodka, I could just like, whatever, it's a waste of time and space. I don't have a strong opinion on sweet vermouth.

Rich:          I'm okay with it. We've got some and there's certain drinks that need it.

Catelin:     Yeah. I like olives on pizza. I like Kalamata olives in a Greek salad. I like them in beer, but it's like, I think a dirty martini for me is less than the sum of its parts.

Rich:          Yeah, I-

Catelin:     Pieces of it are fine, but I don't put them together.

Rich:          Put it all together? No, thank you.

Catelin:     I'm not interested.

Rich:          Yeah, yeah. No, I don't think so. So question for you because I feel like you'll know this. Martinis are typically gin though, right? Not vodka. Vodka martinis are newer.

Catelin:     I think it's half and half. Some are gin-

Rich:          Some people do gin.

Catelin:     Some are... Yeah.

Rich:          But I feel like the original James Bond, shaken, not stirred-

Catelin:     Shall we look?

Rich:          Is a gin martini. And so my question I guess is if you've got a gin that's got that nice aromatic to it, that pineyness that I hate in gins, but that a lot of them have, does that play better herbally with the olives and the olive juices?

Catelin:     I don't know.

Rich:          Because I feel like a dirty vodka martini or a dirty gin martini are going to taste very different.

Catelin:     But I think the dirty is the... Because a martini is different than a dirty martini.

Rich:          You think a dirty martini has to be vodka?

Catelin:     No, it has to have olive juice, but I don't know... Yeah.

Rich:          Olive juice and gin would taste different than olive juice and vodka, especially if the vodka is your traditional-

Catelin:     Would you do-

Rich:          Tasteless, colorless, smell-less.

Catelin:     Yeah. So tells me that you could make this with gin or vodka.

Rich:          Okay. Interesting experiment for somebody who likes a dirty martini would be to do them both and tell us what the flavor difference is.

Catelin:     Yeah. I would be curious to know about that as well.

Rich:          But no one in this room is going to actually do that because we all kind of wretch at the olive juice idea.

Catelin:     It's not even the olive juice for me. I don't like a spirit forward cocktail, end of sentence. It's too much. I'm a delicate flower.

Rich:          You like a Jungle Bird.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Rich:          And a Kir Royale.

Catelin:     So we finalized the menu for our home bar, and I was consulting our martini recipe and my husband's is gin, Lillet, and that's it, and then you garnish with a lemon peel, but it comes with a caveat that if you feel this recipe is wrong, you have enough experience to make your own and so you should do that because this isn't a real bar.

Rich:          I think that's fair. I mean, my vodka martinis tend to just be vodka shaken on ice in a glass, and then you twist a lemon peel above it just to get a little bit of that oil in and drop it in, and we're good, which I guess it's just vodka in a glass. It's cold vodka in a glass. Let's just call it what it is. I would've made a good one.

Catelin:     So you don't even do the vermouth or... Okay. Yeah, I don't want that. My throat hurts. I don't like it.

Rich:          I'm sorry. It's not my favorite though. I love a good lychee martini, which we'll get to at some point. I don't think we've done that one yet.

Catelin:     We haven't, but it has to be pear vodka.

Rich:          It does. And if you try to buy pear gin, it exists, but it is ridiculously expensive. I'm not paying $130 for a bottle of gin.

Catelin:     You should never pay $130 for a bottle of gin. That's foolishness.

Rich:          No, and there was a prickly pear gin, but that's just different. It's a whole different fruit.

Catelin:     Okay. Yeah. I had a pear cocktail on date night on Tuesday. It was spiced pear and Ancho Reyes, which is like a chili liquor. So delightful.

Rich:          I bet we could just throw some lychee in that and call it a day.

Catelin:     Probably. I don't know.

                  It sounds good.

                  Isn't a lychee the little... That's the fuzzy ones, right, the furry looking ones?

Rich:          Yeah. But that skin gets taken off and it's the one that's like-

Catelin:     It's like a grape.

Rich:          It's like a tiny golf ball with a hollowed out hole in the top because they take out all the seeds and stuff and everything, or are the seeds on the skin? I don't know.

Catelin:     I don't know either.

Rich:          I just know they come in a can at the Asian market and you've got to use them all or they'll go bad, and that you use more of the juice than you use, or the syrup, I guess, than you do the-

Catelin:     That's not what I was picturing at all.

Rich:          Oh yeah. There's a pit in there that they pull out.

Catelin:     Thank you.

Rich:          Yeah. Interesting. So it's like a little reddish on the outside. The skin does come off, but you use way more of the syrup in the martini than you do the actual fruit. So you end up with this fruit and no syrup, which just doesn't work.

Catelin:     Could you juice them to get more syrup?

Rich:          Maybe. I mean, I'm thinking that you just have to put five pieces of the fruit on the stick in the drink.

Catelin:     I do love a garnish.

Rich:          A garnish is good. All right. Well, so Zac dislikes dirty martinis.

Catelin:     But we like Zac.

Rich:          We do like Zac. So let's-

Catelin:     Let's get to it.

Rich:          Get him on a microphone and figure out what else he dislikes about marketing. This could hurt.

Catelin:     I'm nervous, but also excited.

Rich:          Same.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Rich:          Dance break.

Zac:           And we're back.

Catelin:     Zac, you're back.

Zac:           I'm here.

Rich:          We gave you a microphone. Are we crazy?

Catelin:     I don't think so.

Rich:          No, we're good. Okay.

Zac:           I might be used to it by now.

Catelin:     So you're drunk with power, but not with a dirty martini.

Zac:           Yeah. I will admit, I pulled the wrong prep sheet for this one, so I did not look at your-

Catelin:     There's no notes.

Zac:           There's no notes?

Catelin:     It's literally just the recipe.

Zac:           I have all the notes.

Catelin:     Oh, that's why he's drunk with power.

Rich:          I guess. Well, all right then.

Zac:           So, okay. I'm kind of all over the place with these. They're all marketing related-

Catelin:     That's on brands for you.

Zac:           That's good. That's fair. That's fair, but I'll just start by saying, one of the things I strongly dislike is content that's trying too hard to be authentic. Immediately when I think of that, I think of the crying CEO after-

Catelin:     Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zac:           We just talked about that the other day in Slack.

Catelin:     We did. Yeah.

Zac:           When he laid people off and then-

Catelin:     And then his life was so hard. Can I back up though, before we get into the dislikes, why isn't it hates? Everyone else has been hates? Are you just too softhearted to say you hate stuff, or is that coming later?

Zac:           Our proofer, Kim, keeps saying that she doesn't like the word hate.

Rich:          So this is Kim's fault. I will talk to her.

Catelin:     Sweet Kim.

Zac:           So for my episode, I decided just to go with dislike.

Rich:          And this hasn't gone to her, obviously, because we haven't created the material. So when it goes, we're going to need a report back on whether she notices and proactively says-

Zac:           I'm sure she'll be happy.

Catelin:     She'll notice.

Rich:          That's hilarious.

Catelin:     Kim's attention to detail is some next level stuff.

Rich:          I mean, yeah. And she's a mom and she's got a huge marketing background. She's done so much and I've known her for years, but yeah, that's funny that this is her influence, not because Zac's just a super nice guy.

Catelin:     I had theories.

Rich:          He's just impressionable.

Catelin:     Okay. Tell me more about inauthentic content or it blindly ... I don't know.

Rich:          Trying too hard-

Catelin:     Yeah, you're trying too hard.

Rich:          Were the words you used.

Zac:           Yeah. So I think some people just use any part of their life for content, and that just kind of bugs me, especially the crying CEO. I think that's the worst it could get.

Rich:          I think there's also a bit of it, they're trying too hard, but there's also this lack of self-awareness. Did they really think that was going to get a positive reaction, that people wouldn't see right through it? I mean, I think it was on, I'm pretty sure it was on Love Is Blind, one of the contestants was doing the interview thing, and a girl had not wanted to marry him blindly after knowing him for three days or whatever without ever seeing him, and he was talking to the producer and he's like, "Do you mind if I get some eyedrops out," and so he got some eyedrops out and he's like, "Thanks," and then as he is talking to the producer, he's trying to make tears and he's not, and he's like, "It's okay if I do this, right?" And the producer's like, "Go ahead, do whatever you want."

Catelin:     And then they showed all of the-

Rich:          They showed it. They aired it, and it's like, do you think they're not going to air that? Of course, they aired it.

Catelin:     Oh, that's funny.

Rich:          But he put them in and then he started to sound like he was crying with the fake tears from his [inaudible 00:11:22].

Catelin:     That's so annoying.

Rich:          Same thing. And those tears might have been genuine, I don't know, but it's just this lack of self-awareness.

Zac:           Yep. It's almost like they don't have a filter. They're so used to being themselves on social media that sometimes they're themselves too much.

Rich:          I think it's the ultra rich too can be that way. It reminds me of Arrested Development. "It's a banana, Michael, what can it cost, $9 or something like that?" Although you say that, but then it's a carton of eggs. What can it cost?

Catelin:     $9 dollars. Oh my God.

Rich:          Yeah, it can happen. I think that's a good one. Any other examples in that area?

Zac:           So I was trying to think of it, but honestly, I'm scrolling through LinkedIn looking for stuff a lot, and I just see a lot of overly-

Catelin:     Why is everyone writing novels on LinkedIn? Everything is a libretto. I don't know.

Rich:          You Need to post your butt song on there from Chat GPT.

Catelin:     Something tells me that that would be flagged for unprofessionalism or something.

Rich:          And that's where the crying CEO came up this week is somebody had done a ChatGPT that was announced to employees that you're doing layoffs, but you're also promoting some executives, and then throw in a Martin Luther King quote.

Catelin:     And it spit it out.

Rich:          And ChatGPT did it, and I think when you read it for the first time, I think somebody-

Catelin:     It sounds like a-

Rich:          Please tell me this isn't real.

Catelin:     I was like, is this real? That might have been real, like a bad PR agency was like, yeah, this, endorse, co-sign. Send it out.

Rich:          Some of that just detachment from reality blows my mind.

Catelin:     Or the saying something without actually saying anything. The non apology apology where that was out of my character, but it's like, no, that was you. You made that shitty choice. Apologize in a way that is like people, and then move on from it. I don't know.

Zac:           Maybe I'm also just exhausted from reading so many long LinkedIn posts. I don't know.

Rich:          It could be. They wore you down.

Catelin:     Stop telling me about your breakfast.

Rich:          They wore you down to the point where you weren't going to submit. You were just going to be completely angry and dejected from it.

Zac:           Exactly.

Rich:          It's like anti-Stockholm Syndrome maybe. I don't know.

Catelin:     Yeah. Let me out. I don't know.

Rich:          All right. Number two.

Zac:           So I wanted to say spam, but I thought I should probably narrow it down a little bit.

Rich:          It's delicious though. Spam, like fried spam is so good.

Catelin:     No, honey.

Zac:           Not that spam. Yes. So I think what inspired this was a message I got yesterday on LinkedIn, and it was weirdly-

Catelin:     It was like an in-mail.

Zac:           Yeah. It was one of those, but it was kind of weirdly flirty. [inaudible 00:14:12].

Rich:          Yeah.

Zac:           I told Rich about it.

Rich:          And I was like, "That's awkward," and you're like, "Yeah, weirdly flirty."

Zac:           Yeah. He was like, "You look so positive, professional," and I don't know what the other word was, but then he sent me a blushing emoji.

Rich:          Yeah, the blushing emoji.

Zac:           And then he tried to sell me something, so I did not like that.

Catelin:     What could that mean?

Rich:          It means he misread Zac as being into dudes, I think.

Catelin:     But so that part is like whatever. That's not-

Rich:          But who sells that way?

Zac:           Well, either way, it definitely made me uncomfortable.

Catelin:     Yeah, no kidding. What was he trying to sell you?

Zac:           He was an expansion franchise person. I don't know what it was.

Rich:          Those franchise people. I get those all the time.

Catelin:     No blushing emojis for Rich.

Rich:          I never get blushing emojis though. I feel like left out, but I basically get the, I can see you've been very successful by pull one line from my bio.

Catelin:     God, Isn't that the worse?

Rich:          It's usually not the current thing I'm doing. Are you ready for your next adventure owning a business? We've got franchise opportunities and it's like, first of all, I own a business.

Catelin:     I do own a business.

Rich:          Second of all, I do not want to own a second business that is controlled by somebody else somewhere. So just do your research people.

Zac:           Yeah. And I think the second paragraph is like, this is probably a long shot, but.

Catelin:     That's correct.

Zac:           It's even longer of a shot now that you opened with that.

Catelin:     I appreciate the ones where they're just copying and pasting and then not including the correct greeting.

Rich:          Hi, Craig. And I'm like, my name's not Craig.

Catelin:     Nope. I've never been Craig.

Rich:          I usually write back, who's Craig and no.

Catelin:     Please remove me from your list. Unsubscribe.

Zac:           And then along with the LinkedIn stuff, I get a lot of crypto bros messaging me. "Hey bro, do you want to make a lot of money?" No, not with cryptocurrencies.

Catelin:     SBF is a liar. Yeah.

Rich:          Not a good time for that.

Catelin:     Nobody feels bad for him.

Rich:          I mean, I think that one's probably, I don't get those at all. I think that's probably in part because you're young and you're in marketing and they're thinking like, he's got disposable income. Let's steal all that.

Zac:           And then same thing with NFTs, but they might be even worse because-

Catelin:     Yeah, none of it makes sense.

Rich:          The NFTs.

Zac:           It's basically all scams, but.

Rich:          Yeah, don't buy this thing that you don't actually own.

Catelin:     Yeah. What's next?

Rich:          Oh God. I'm just thinking about the blushing emoji. That's so awkward, and LinkedIn of all places. Save that for Instagram DMs or something.

Zac:           It was a little forward.

Rich:          A little. I agree.

Catelin:     Could have been worse.

Rich:          It could have been a lot worse. You're right.

Zac:           Imagine he listens to this podcast episode-

Catelin:     There's a lot of eggplants and peaches or something. I don't know.

Rich:          I mean, if he does, we can narrow it down pretty quickly because aren't there 13 or 14 people listening? 50 maybe. I don't know.

Catelin:     15. No, we'll find you.

Rich:          All right. Interesting. I wonder if that happens to a lot of people. If it did, email us if you're listening. We'd love to know about your blushing emojis on LinkedIn.

Catelin:     Or maybe not.

Rich:          Number three.

Zac:           So this is from a personal experience, but just any multi-level marketing schemes and stuff.

Catelin:     I love a good pyramid.

Zac:           Advertising marketing jobs because a lot of people actually run into this, but they'll be looking for marketing jobs and then it ends up being a complete scam.

Rich:          Sell knives to your family.

Catelin:     What are they selling? That's marketing. They're calling that marketing?

Rich:          Yes. All of those, the makeup ones and the-

Catelin:     Leggings.

Rich:          Leggings, the clothing, all of that where you've got... So first of all, if you have to pay them, it's probably not a job. So that's the first piece of it.

Catelin:     Step one. Okay. Is this where I realize I've been in a cult?

Rich:          I think it could be. I don't think you have been, but I think that yes, it could be.

Catelin:     I'm just kidding. Oh, no, no.

Rich:          The thing I heard earlier too on some social media was if they offer you the job in the interview, and it sounds too good to be true-

Catelin:     It is.

Rich:          It's probably a multi-level marketing thing or it's a door-to-door sales thing and they just, which could go hand in hand and they just want you out there selling.

Zac:           The door-to-door stuff is kind of scary because I've heard stories of people like, okay, you're going to have this interview, and then they take you out in a van to actually, not a van, but they're like, okay, we're going to show you what the job is.

Catelin:     And then they just set you loose?

Zac:           And then no, they take you to a full days of door to day sales.

Catelin:     Oh my gosh, that makes me so tired.

Zac:           Door to door.

Rich:          First of all, that should be illegal if it's not. I think another good red flag on a job interview is if you show up and they ask you to get into a van. It may be time to get back in your car and leave.

Zac:           Yeah.

Rich:          So somebody, obviously, we have a doorbell camera because we have all the technology, but we had somebody who rang the doorbell and I was indisposed and was not able to get to the door, but it comes up on my phone and it comes up on the Alexa and everything, and I'm looking and I'm like, "Who's this guy in a green coat and whatever?" So I was like, eh, whatever. So he ended up walking away, but I watched the replay and he rang the doorbell and then ran his hand across the top of the door jam, and I'm like, "He was looking for a key. What the hell?" So that was super freaky. Couldn't see his face. He had a black mask on the bottom. I mean, it was super cold out yesterday, so I don't blame him for that.

Zac:           Oh, this was yesterday?

Catelin:     That's so creepy.

Rich:          This was yesterday. Yeah, yesterday, and he had a clipboard and an iPad, so it looked like he was probably selling something, but part of me is like what kind of a klepto are you that you check for a key above the door jam? Who touches the top of a door jam ever at anybody's house?

Catelin:     That makes me so uneasy.

Rich:          I mean, glad we have two dogs. We've got the security system.

Catelin:     Your dogs would not harm anybody that walked through your door. They'll just be like, hi, friend.

Rich:          That's probably true. That's probably true. Can I have scratches?

Catelin:     They may be loud, but they wouldn't like-

Rich:          Well, they're only loud till you get in the house, and then they just want to hang out.

Catelin:     Then they just want to love you.

Rich:          Yeah. Those MLM things. I think because you're young and starting to get into a career and really trying to find that first marketing job especially, those can just nail you.

Zac:           I have a story actually from when I was in college, but-

Catelin:     What did you sell? It wasn't any of your organs, was it?

Zac:           I did not join an MLM, but I was in between jobs, I think, and I was looking to get my first rental or whatever, and my friend told me, "I can get you a marketing job."

Catelin:     Are you still friends with this person?

Zac:           No.

Rich:          Well, because if you were, she was going to ask for names. You know that.

Catelin:     Riley would know.

Zac:           But it's funny because I asked him directly, "This is not a pyramid scheme or a multi-level marketing thing, right?" He was like, "Oh no, bro, I would never ever give do that to you."

Catelin:     How much money did he ask for from you to-

Zac:           Nothing. So he told me, he gave me a number-

Rich:          Didn't get that far.

Zac:           And then he had the guy, whoever I was in contact with, I can't remember, but he set up an interview at Panera Bread, which probably should have been the first red flag, probably.

Catelin:     I don't know.

Rich:          I mean, Panera's for firing people, not for hiring people.

Catelin:     Oh my God.

Rich:          Inside joke done.

Zac:           I've actually heard of that before, but yeah, I went there and it was definitely a scam and it was really weird because it started out normal, and then he turned his phone around and started doing a rehearsed presentation, and he was very aggressive with how he was talking to me.

Rich:          And Zac bought a set of knives and went home.

Zac:           But he was like, "Does this sound like something you'd be interested in," and I was like, "No," and he's like, "Do you know any friends that would be interested in this?"

Catelin:     Also no, and I'm not friends-

Zac:           It's like if I had friends, I would not-

Rich:          Yeah. Oh, you have friends, come on.

Catelin:     But he's saying if they were actually my friend. I would not-

Rich:          I know, I know. They wouldn't be after that. So I think we've got another tip for red flags in interviews. This is turning into red flags in interviews. If your interview is at... Whoa, something loud happening outside, but if your interview's happening at Panera and you're not interviewing to work at Panera, maybe just don't go.

Zac:           Probably a red flag.

Rich:          Yeah. Same thing. If they ask you to do your interview at a Starbucks, but it's not Starbucks who's hiring you, I would be skeptical of that unless it's one of those remote things, although they'll just do a Zoom interview. A remote place is never going to meet you at a Starbucks. They'll do a Zoom interview.

Catelin:     Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that.

Rich:          Wow. Was that number three, right?

Catelin:     That was three. What's four?

Zac:           I think that was three. I'll finish it out with a fourth.

Catelin:     Yes.

Zac:           I don't know if this is just because I work and talk to Riley or not.

Catelin:     It's not Riley.

Zac:           No. It's when people say like, why are we ranking number one already? What kind of work are you doing, kind of thing for like SEO and-

Catelin:     And then they don't trust us, you mean?

Zac:           Well, just expecting to rank-

Catelin:     Why aren't we? Okay.

Zac:           Yeah. And I think that goes into really high expectations because of black hat SEO tactics that other agencies push, which gets people... When you're selling people, we can get your rank number one really easily, it's never true.

Rich:          Yeah, right up there with no, this isn't a multi-level marketing scheme or a pyramid scheme. You're lying.

Zac:           Well, and it's just like maybe you could get those results very short term.

Catelin:     Yeah. That doesn't seem sustainable either.

Zac:           But it just messes things up in the long run.

Rich:          Yeah. That give me a flashback to the, no, this isn't a swingers resort.

Catelin:     Oh my God.

Rich:          It's definitely, if you've been listening to the podcast, that's come up.

Zac:           What episode was that?

Rich:          So that flashes back. Hopefully, that one's aired. If not, this is going to be a real weird-

Zac:           It's definitely aired. I just can't remember which one it is.

Rich:          Yeah, you're right, it has aired. It's funny, but most of the time, if somebody protests about something or insists super hard that that's not a thing, it is. It absolutely is.

Zac:           And I think it just puts a negative impact on the actual good tactics that you can use because they take a lot longer, but they're way more sustainable.

Rich:          Well, and if you've got really niche keywords or a niche category that's not super competitive, you can jump to the first page really quickly-

Catelin:     You might be able to do that. Yeah.

Rich:          But 99% of the time, that's not what's going to happen. It's going to be way longer than that.

Zac:           And I think it does a really bad thing for people's expectations for what they can expect.

Rich:          Well, then they go do the bad thing and then they get blacklisted, and then we have to go clean it all up and start from negative, not start from zero, and that's even worse. So yeah, I think that unrealistic expectations that clients can have or businesses can have, or that other marketing agencies set for clients, it's not really their fault. If somebody said they could do that, it's like, I would ask too, can you do this, and it's like, no, they're lying.

Zac:           Yeah. If it seems like a shortcut and it seems like it's-

Catelin:     It is. Yeah. And I run into that a lot. We're asked to do presentations or marketing for small business, and I feel like people just want a silver bullet that solves all of their problems.

Rich:          They do, and they want it to cost $5.

Catelin:     And it's like there's a reason our services are the dollars that they are because it's work and it takes expertise, and discounting that doesn't do anybody any favors.

Rich:          Yep. Expertise, experience, and time is what you buy.

Catelin:     Well, we've got all of it for the right price.

Rich:          We do.

Zac:           So those were four things that I strongly dislike.

Catelin:     I strongly dislike.

Rich:          Just not going to use that word hate on this one, but all Kim's fault.

Catelin:     Thanks, Kim. We love you.

Rich:          All right. So any parting words? Anything that you just want to slam in there? Anything that didn't make the list that just drives you crazy?

Catelin:     What about not in marketing, one thing besides olives.

Rich:          Yeah, we've beaten olives to death, the poor things.

Zac:           Mean people. No.

Catelin:     Mean people. Right. That tracks for you too.

Rich:          I mean, people can be entertaining though sometimes.

Zac:           I think olives definitely are not... Black olives are horrible, green olives are horrible.

Catelin:     Man.

Zac:           The dirty martini, the reason I put that specifically on this episode is because I did try one.

Rich:          Oh, good for you.

Catelin:     You will try... You are an adventurous like consumer.

Zac:           I try and try everything once.

Catelin:     Yeah.

Zac:           But with the dirty martini, I drank it and I could not finish it. It's like one of the only cocktails I've ever drank that I couldn't finish.

Rich:          Wow, that's a little wild. So would you go so far as to say you hate olives?

Catelin:     You hate a dirty martini?

Zac:           I mean, you might be able to say that.

Rich:          Wow. He just really is really committed-

Catelin:     Really committed to the bit.

Rich:          Very committed.

Catelin:     I appreciate that.

Rich:          So things Zac dislikes, we learned from four of them there in the marketing area, and we bashed on olives one last time.

Catelin:     One more time. All right.

Rich:          Good having you on this side of the microphone this time.

Catelin:     Thanks, Zac.

Zac:           Happy to be here.

Rich:          All right. And we're out. That's it for another episode of Cocktails, Tangents, and Answers.

Catelin:     We hope it was as much fun to listen to as it was to make.

Rich:          You can find me on Twitter or Instagram at @richmackey. I try not to make it too difficult. It's just my name, and you can find our agency at Antidote_71. That's A-N-T-I-D-O-T-E_71 on Twitter and Instagram as well.

Catelin:     And you can find me at home sipping a craft cocktail prepared by my in-home bartender. It's my husband.

Rich:          We'll be back with another episode every other week and a whole new cocktail recipe, plenty more tangents, and of course, answers to those pressing marketing questions.

Catelin:     And if you'd like to send us a question, you can go to to send us an email.

Rich:          Or you can call our hotline at (402) 718-9971 and leave us a voicemail. Your questions might be used for future episodes of the podcast.

Catelin:     For now, like and subscribe and tune in next time.