79 - The Banning of TikTok, What's Next?

Rich: All right, we're here, Kaitlin, um, and we are going to talk about TikTok.

Catelin: I don't know if I feel old, like young enough to speak effectively on this topic. So it should be interesting.

Rich: But you do observe what goes on in the world and you care about security and privacy and you do watch politics and things like that.

Rich: Which. Well, in that case, yes. So we'll talk about,

Catelin: uh,

Rich: yeah, we're going to talk about the ban and what happened. Uh, kind of the timeline of it, which is bizarre. And then where we think it's going, what we think it's going to do and. Where the implications are from there, um, yeah, really wild. I do know, like, I know Megan loves Tik Tok, like she uses Tik Tok.

Catelin: Jamie and Adriana as well. Yep, and Zach. Producer Zach uses

Rich: Tik Tok. Um, I see Tik

Catelin: Tok videos. I think basically if you're, if you are younger than the age of 30 in our office. You're using

Rich: TikTok. I would agree with that. That's probably true. Yeah. Um, but for me, um, when I'm not using TikTok I would love a good bourbon strawberry iced tea, Kaitlin.

Catelin: Oh, yes. I don't really. Did I find this one?

Rich: No.

Catelin: No, I

Rich: didn't. I don't think so.

Catelin: That was the last one.

Rich: Um, so this one is pretty much what it says. It's bourbon and strawberry iced tea with a couple of little tweaks in it. And really fun garnishes. I love a good fruit garnish. Like, yes. Sign me up. Um, I also feel like, and I think, I feel like we discussed this one.

Rich: Maybe we did when we were teasing the episode. I don't do bourbon. I'm not a big bourbon person. I feel like I could do this because it's going to have other things going on and that bourbon's going to give it depth. Um, so yeah, it's, I mean, strawberries, lemon, bourbon, simple syrup over ice and unsweetened tea.

Rich: It's like, I think I both really

Catelin: like drink, we both really like iced tea also. That's true. Yeah, I'm a huge Iced Tea

Rich: fan, uh, you know, who's not a huge Iced Tea fan, Zach. He likes hot tea, he just really doesn't like Iced Tea, and I've grilled him about it in the past. It just, he's not a nice tea person, and I'm like, okay, that's weird to me.

Rich: I,

Catelin: Zach, I want to revisit some hot tea scenarios because I have found so many delightful hot teas, or he, he's off the mic, he's unchained. What do you got?

Catelin: Okay.

Rich: Mm hmm. I

Rich: mean, you could put bourbon in a, in a hot tea, like, or a warm tea. That's

Catelin: a toddy. I'm just making a toddy. Yeah.

Rich: Oh, nice. Sounds great. Katelyn, you want to roll us through it?

Catelin: I do. A bourbon strawberry iced tea is two large, fresh strawberries. I think you could use frozen here, like frozen and thawed. Ooh. Um, I've gotten very into a frozen, frozen fruit and also frozen avocado.

Catelin: You can get avocado chunks frozen. Never had that. So you just like take out what you need and then the rest stay, so they don't get

Rich: all like brown and

Catelin: sad and terrible, right? Because that avocado has,

Rich: it's got a 15 minute window where you have to eat it. You have, it's like

Catelin: 15 seconds, yeah. So anyway, two large fresh strawberries sliced into quarters, an ounce of lemon juice freshly squeezed, two ounces of bourbon, three quarters of an ounce rich simple syrup, well, do we have a recipe for rich simple syrup?

Catelin: So it's got extra sugar in it, right? Okay.

Rich: I

Catelin: was like, I don't Rich simple syrup with

Rich: more sugar.

Catelin: Got it, okay. I was like, I don't I don't know what that is and I don't see a, I don't see a name. Or it's when I

Rich: make simple syrup, it's rich simple syrup.

Catelin: That's fair. TM. Uh, unsweetened iced tea to top. And you can garnish with blueberries, strawberries, and a mint sprig, which I love.

Catelin: So you're going to add the strawberries and lemon juice into a shaker and gently muddle. Mmm, get out the muddler. Just like a little muddle, right?

Rich: I love a good muddle. Add

Catelin: the bourbon and simple syrup, add ice, and shake until well chilled. Strain into your tall Collins glass over fresh ice and top with your unsweetened tea.

Catelin: Garnish with skewered blueberries and strawberries and a mint sprig.

Rich: So, you talked about frozen, like, I would do frozen blueberries in this, like,

Catelin: Yes!

Rich: I love that I've started to use frozen fruit in, like, a sparkling wine or even a white wine. I don't drink a lot of white wine because putting ice in it just is stupid.

Rich: Like, I'm not that. But, you know, floating a few frozen blueberries in your Prosecco, it's cute as fuck. Classy. Exactly. So I'm a real big fan of that. So my mother in law likes a Starbucks pink drink and we found it in bottles, but what it was missing is the strawberries. So I got a big bag of frozen strawberries from Costco for her, so she could put those in her pink drink.

Catelin: I think that in, at Starbucks though, they use freeze dried strawberries.

Rich: They might.

Catelin: She said the frozen ones were

Rich: great. I'm pretty sure they're, I bet. She didn't like ice cubes in there.

Catelin: Yeah. I've started doing like little yogurt parfaits in jars to take with me to the office. And, um, I find that frozen strawberries are nice because they add a little bit more moisture.

Catelin: So when the granola sucks up some of the yogurt moisture, it's like added back from the, the frozen thawing strawberries. And they keep it cold,

Rich: which is nice too. Yeah,

Catelin: we have a fridge, I don't really need to worry about that, but, uh, yeah, let's go without TikTok. All right, we'll take a break and be back

Rich: on TikTok.

Catelin: Okay. All right, we are back.

Rich: I am ready for it. Um, it's wild to me because obviously I think this comes out in a couple weeks from when we're recording it. I'm not sure of the timeline, but, um, what, who knows what's going to happen with TikTok by then because shit has just been moving by day, like, and it's in, it's out, it's up, it's down, it's around.

Rich: Yeah.

Catelin: I admittedly don't follow very closely because again, it does not like directly affect the way in which I interact with the internet. However, I do think that it holds some really significant data privacy concerns. Allegedly some national security risks. I don't find that to be compelling necessarily.

Catelin: But I'm also not a legislator or a Supreme Court justice. So I

Rich: think, I mean, when it comes to China, like they do have a really good spy program. Um, they also do things, I mean, there are, There have been incidents, and I would have to look up the specific ones, even here in Omaha, where they would have students, female students, at like Bellevue University or Metro or a local school, local college, and those students were actually, like they looked college age, but they were older and they were spies.

Rich: And what their goal was, was to meet people in the Air Force at Offutt and then try to get security information out of them. So that's a thing that's been going on forever, and there have been a couple cases in the last, like, 5 or 10 years that have actually happened where people have been kicked out of the military for, like, that issue.

Rich: So that's, like, the analog version, though. Um, but yeah, so being down here and kind of adjacent to that and seeing some of those news items, it's a little bit bigger. I mean, I also, you know, know a lot of people who work for the government and so TikTok has been banned and you can't put the phone on, put the app on a government phone for a very long time.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: That's been several years. Um, no government phone, no DoD phone. Several states have that. I think Nebraska did it at one point where you can't have

Catelin: TikTok on a state issued

Rich: phone. Now, you can have it on your personal phone, even if you're in the government, you can have it on your personal phone and use it.

Rich: Um, but yeah, so, um, the real issue is in China, there really isn't privacy for private companies. Um, the government can make any company share data with it. Um, and so I

Catelin: want it. I want to, like, peel something apart right there, though, is that Xiao Chen, who is the CEO of ByteDance is Singaporean. And so he is not and has never been affiliated with the Chinese Communist Party because he is not Chinese.

Catelin: Correct.

Rich: But they are a Chinese company.

Catelin: Yes.

Rich: And so because they're incorporated in China, the Chinese government can force them to give them data. Mm hmm. Um, and that's a huge issue with Yeah, I don't think the CEO personally Um, I don't think that's really an issue. The issue is basically that he could be forced to turn over data.

Rich: Um, and may, I mean, the other issue is they, they think maybe data has already been turned over to the Chinese government.

Catelin: And I think where this is troubling for me is Our federal legislation on U. S. data privacy and consumer protections on the Internet has been exceptionally slow and has relied upon enforcement in places like California specifically, as well as the EU and their GDPR protections.

Catelin: And so to me, but I think GDPR and California are the most stringent at this point. I haven't heard as much about Canada, but the where it troubles me, if I can, is that they are, they're speaking out of both ends of their mouth, right? In, in one, on one hand, they are concerned. About data privacy and through the lens of national, national security and mm-hmm

Catelin: And espionage. However, they and our gerontocracy is too old and too tech illiterate to actually understand how data and consumer privacy should be prioritized in any facet of the internet. Mm-hmm . Whether that's via an app. It, as it relates to AI, because that's the big buzzword right now, right, is they want to talk about AI, AI, AI, but they don't have any functional understanding at even a high level or a basic level of, of the ways in which people are interacting with those technologies and how the downstream effects can change people's lives and their, their privacy options.

Rich: Yeah, I think, I think there's, there's a lot to unpack there, um, but I think the biggest thing is the people who are making these laws and trying to regulate this one in particular.

Catelin: Don't understand it. Yeah,

Rich: don't use it, don't understand it. I mean, the congressional testimony from the CEO of Embarrassing.

Rich: Was hilarious also, like just get the popcorn and your bourbon strawberry iced tea. Um, but also terrifying because you're like, you don't understand how any of this works.

Catelin: Um. Were they were talking about like routers? And modems and the internet overall and God bless that CEO for having to sit through that and like I realized this through my time at the Iowa State Capitol a few days ago that like you think that our legislators are intelligent and aware and

Rich: you hope

Catelin: above average right that they have a deep understanding of the myriad issues that are happening when in reality They are just people

Rich: or that they would talk to experts and trust those experts and believe them, which doesn't happen a lot either.

Rich: No. So I think my favorite on this, so there was the sharing user data. That was one of them. The national security risk in part was. They were worried that TikTok could be used to influence public opinion and spread misinformation on behalf of the Chinese government, but in particular that it could be used to influence public opinion or spread misinformation about the election.

Rich: My big one on that is like, okay, ban X, like, like ban Facebook, like those are used in that same way. I mean, do we know that Elon's not selling data to China or some other, you know, North Korea or somebody? I don't know if North Korea could actually unpack that data. Um, they're not the most technologically savvy, but like that whole influence public opinion to your point, if you want to make sure that social media isn't spreading false information or misinformation, there's a much bigger problem here than TikTok.

Rich: Um, so, Well, and

Catelin: it's the idea of deregulation as well. Like we haven't been able to. Untangle or unpack section 230, which governs tech and social media as like not a media company and yet they are still able to utilize all of the news media, but then add all of these like bits and commentary and things that aren't verifiable.

Rich: Uh, not in Canada. They can't use news. So Facebook and Meta got banned.

Catelin: Or Australia, right? Yeah,

Rich: so Canada wanted them to pay for the content. Um, to the outlets that were providing it because they're like, these people are making this and they have to make money and blah, blah, blah. And you can't just share it for free and Facebook said no and they said fine and they cut off all news outlets to Facebook and meta.

Rich: Um, which I learned in one of my discord channels this week. It's got a, um, There's a Canadian channel in there. Like it's not a Canadian discord. There's just a Canadian channel in there. And I just go look at it every once in a while because I'm fascinated. So the big one this week was also like, they were very confused about what a caucus is and outside of an election.

Rich: And I said, welcome to what, how everybody thinks, because it's just the stupidest thing in the world. And I did my first 16.

Catelin: It is a beautiful way to meet your neighbors and have discussion. However, it is a wildly inefficient process and wholly inequitable to those who are not able to be present in person.

Catelin: I mean, do you know how How much time do we have,

Rich: Zach? Do you know how we met our neighbors We're never gonna get to the

Catelin: timeline.

Rich: Yeah, we will. You know how we met our neighbors and had discussions in San Diego? Pool parties. We did a weekly parties happy hour. Yeah. Yeah. We just did a happy yard.

Rich: Somebody's yard. Same thing in Denver. We never took off in Omaha. Nobody wanted to come, like drink in our driveway. Um, but in Denver and San Diego it went really well. So surprising. Alright, so then there's also critical infrastructure access. This came up with Huawei to the phone company and they make Ah, yes.

Rich: Radio towers. Yes, yes, yes. But the idea that TikTok would've access to, uh, sensitive systems or information in the US as well. Um, that one I don't think gets as much play as the user privacy and the national security risks. Those are kind of the ones they hum their hat on. Yeah, yeah. So, all this shit started about a year ago, hard to believe.

Rich: Um, longer

Catelin: than that. I mean, if you want to go all the way back, um, we were talking about this in Trump one, right, when he wasn't a fan of TikTok and said he wanted to ban it because it was where all the liberals were gathering,

Rich: um, that's where kids are gathering to do weird dance videos. Yeah. And it's where twin sauce does all their shit.

Rich: Right. Who? Twin sauce. No. Do you know who twin sauce is?

Catelin: Next.

Rich: Next. Well, they're out there.

Catelin: Next.

Rich: Um, anyway, they're two twins who just do dance videos and they do them with other collaborators and things. And apparently they're making bank. I don't know. Um, I know. So in March, um, Congress, March of 2024, March 2024, yeah, so last year, they decided to push that bill to ban or force the sale of TikTok to a U.

Rich: S. company. Um, there are a lot of TikTok creators lobbying. There were things that were going on in Congress, they were getting testimony like we talked about that was terrifying and hilarious. Um, and the house said, screw it, we're going to pass the bill. So they did, which is what usually, yeah, in a rare move with a split Congress, the Senate actually passed the bill in April very quickly.

Rich: And then the president signed it into law. President Biden signed it cause he was president in April of 2024. Um, so yeah, so as happens with all things, um, TikTok and their parent company, ByteDance sued the government. Claiming that it was unconstitutional. So that's always an interesting one for me to wrap my head around a Chinese company.

Rich: Claiming they're being treated unfairly based on our constitution, uh, but it was a first amendment thing, right? It was basically, but aren't they still

Catelin: subject to the jurisdiction of,

Rich: they are in our borders. Yeah.

Catelin: Yeah

Rich: We're basically saying that like no you're violating our first amendment, right?

Rich: Because you know corporations are people Caitlin We learned that several years ago. I did remember

Catelin: that. Citizens United

Rich: Yep.

Catelin: And so they

Rich: have first amendment rights as well. Um, so that just sat around until December and then a federal appeals courts upheld the tick tock ban, rejecting the first amendment challenge.

Rich: They said no, because there is a loophole or whatever you want to call it with first amendment rights about safety, national security, those types of things. It's why you can't scream fire in a crowded theater, those types of things. Um, so then of course, um, at this point, um, Trump has been elected, so he knows he's going to be president.

Rich: Um, he's already trying to do things. So he asked the Supreme Court to delay the ban until his administration can address it. Uh, and that was right after Christmas. And then in early January, three days before the inauguration, the Supreme Court said, nah, we're still gonna ban it, citing national security concerns, and set the ban to take effect on January 9th.

Rich: One day

Catelin: before the inauguration, like could we have not waited until the 21st

Rich: and a Sunday for all of all things,

Catelin: the inefficiency of the bureaucracy is really what kills me in this moment.

Rich: What, what got me about that is all of that stuff is just basically how things work. Like if Congress passes an unpopular law or somebody is pissed about it, they sue, it goes to federal court, they rule.

Rich: It goes to the Supreme Court if somebody pushes it there, in this case it was Trump who asked them to delay it, um. And the Supreme Court said no, which was interesting. But then, the shit show really started because the ban was supposed to be January 19th, well TikTok just shut off everything on January 18th.

Rich: And people were like Well, I think,

Catelin: I think because they didn't want to pay the fines, and then the other issue was if The app stores didn't comply, they would have been subject to very significant fines, and so Google In this instance, right, Google and Apple both, I believe, removed it from the app. Well, yeah, they did on the 18th,

Rich: but TikTok didn't have to disable video on the 18th.

Rich: They could have done it on the 19th.

Catelin: Right.

Rich: And I think that was the other thing is there were so many creators who were kind of planning there, this might be my last TikTok video and then it's off. And then they all freaked out on Instagram. Uh, that was fun to watch. Um, but yeah, the app was removed from both app stores.

Rich: Um, Apple still doesn't have it. In the app store. I don't know about Google. I, but, um, it's still not back. If you have it on your phone, it will work. But if you want to download it, you cannot.

Catelin: Well, and some, so like Jamie was saying that hers got offloaded, like she didn't even uninstall it. It got like removed from her phone.

Catelin: So she can't use it even though she never like, yeah.

Rich: That's like when that whole Flappy Bird thing, if you remember that, that game that was super addicting and the guy created it and had all these downloads. And he just like killed it because he's like, forget it. But if you had it on your phone, you could.

Rich: So people were selling iPhones with Flappy Bird installed on eBay for like thousands of dollars. Well, I think

Catelin: that's happening now with TikTok as well. Oh, probably. Like, they're, the secondary market is. Wild. A

Rich: hundred percent.

Catelin: So, yeah. So, I

Rich: mean, since then, um, on the morning of the 19th, again, still a day before he's actually president, um, Trump posted on True Social that he's going to pause the TikTok ban and protect tech companies, um, supporting the app while his administration reviews it.

Rich: Um, and so Oracle and Akami restored TikTok's website because everything goes through like Amazon or Oracle or some other third party. Um, which is why when one of those goes down, just 43 random web services you use all go down at the same time. Um, so what's interesting about that is, uh, he's basically saying, no, my administration is not going to uphold the law that Congress passed, which in and of itself is controversial.

Rich: Um, not surprising, but controversial. So it is still up. People are still using it. Um, if you still have it on your phone. But

Catelin: I've heard that it's weird, that it's like, not the same, and I think the other, the other part that is kind of missing is that the, like, it was back, they brought, like, they, they took it down, and then they brought it back, but when they brought it back and restored it, it had this very, um, like, congratulatory message about, Yeah, thanks Trump, blah blah blah blah blah.

Catelin: and he hadn't been inaugurated yet, but it was like, is he lobbying or acting on behalf of the government and interacting with other countries, which is illegal, unless you're actually the president? Yeah. And then, like Or the administration invites

Rich: you, which they did with like the Israeli thing, they worked together.

Catelin: Um, but how does that then like affect what the. TikTok algorithm will be moving forward.

Rich: It looks like they've already tweaked it hard. So like people are saying the for you page is completely different and not tailored to their interests anymore. Yep. Um, creators are saying that their uncollected earnings are missing.

Rich: Um, so they can't actually see their like money they've earned, but hasn't been paid to their account.

Catelin: Oh my goodness.

Rich: And like, I mean, people are really like, complaining about it. Um, content moderation got stricter also. Um. That's interesting. Yeah, especially as like, everybody else is like, content moderation, what's that?

Catelin: We don't care. Say whatever you want. Yeah, I, it, it TikTok stays online. Uh, being able to work on some level, and what happens after that is unclear, or like what happens moving forward if they'll be able to continue operations.

Rich: Yeah, and I think there was this, I mean, Trump floated that he wanted the government to buy it and own a tech stock, and the U.

Rich: S. would act, and I'm like, okay, now we've got State sponsored media, like that seems like a problem that kind of hasn't gone anywhere. Um, I know there was also like, Elon was like, I'll buy it. And everybody's like, no, like you screwed up Twitter. Don't screw up another one. Um, Meta probably can't buy it. I don't think that would get through an antitrust.

Rich: Um, but there've been a couple of other things that have kind of been going on. Um, but yeah, nobody really knows what's going to happen. It's just sort of riding out there, but a little bit hobbled. Um, and I think it's probably given that base pause on how they make money and looking at like, okay, maybe I need to diversify.

Rich: So I don't have the data, but one thing I'm curious about, did YouTube shorts increase significantly? Or have they gone up significantly from some of those creators? I think, um,

Catelin: YouTube and Substack is kind of the, the ex, like the Exodus. I love substack recipients. I see my favorite the most part. I'll pay for

Rich: content if it's good.

Rich: Like, and I think there's one I pay for that's like $10 a month. It's not anything. Mm-hmm .

Catelin: Um, so yeah, a lot of the, a lot of the creators that I follow on Substack are really reasonable. Like one of them is like $75 a year. Um, for really in depth analysis of legislative things. Cause that's, Oh, I like to spend my free time.

Rich: Yeah. I follow gays and artists and sometimes gay artists.

Catelin: That sounds more fun than what I'm doing. Or at least less, uh, horrifying. I don't know. All

Rich: right.

Catelin: It's a different kind of art. I, if I may, um. The one, one creator that I know is very engaged in and aware of what might happen is vSphere, um, or Under the Desk News, started on TikTok, is also on Instagram.

Catelin: Um, I've had the pleasure of meeting them a couple of times, and they do the news in a way that is very approachable. But she's also been, um, involved in some of the lobbying and understanding the policy and like a whole host of, of like deep involvement with kind of what had happened and what's happening moving forward.

Catelin: And so that's where I would go to follow any, or, you know, look for any updates, but I honestly can't say what's going to happen. Um, but I have It's unpredictable. Yeah. Uh huh. And I, I have seen like, like we kind of talked just as a, a fracturing of the creator environment because of the lack of content moderation on meta platforms moving forward and just like the overall frustration with the environments that are being created there.

Rich: Yeah. And I think that's where, um, and we'll probably do an episode on blue sky sometime in the future. Um, I know even

Catelin: less about blue sky than I know on

Rich: Twitter. So remember, remember Twitter, like 2008, 2009, like it's an open platform. You're meeting people like you, you're having good conversations. It's not filled with like porn and Nazis or anything like that.

Rich: Um, that's what blue sky is like. Um, so one, you don't have private conversations. You can't. If you've got something out there, your entire feed is public. You can't make your feed private. So you really have to think about what you're posting because anybody can see it. Um, and you own it. So I've seen a lot of people going over there and asking about like, um, okay, like that's kind of weird, blah, blah, blah.

Rich: But there's also, because it's a federated platform, it will eventually integrate with other platforms like Mastodon, um, potentially, you know, threads, but I don't know how much that's going to actually end up in that universe. But, um, They have developers working on an Instagram killer that will integrate with Blue Sky.

Rich: So you'd be able to, it's sort of like how threads and Instagram work together, where you'll see threads sometimes in Instagram, or you'll see images on threads. Um, but they're looking at having it, one, it is moderated. They do have rules. You have to obey their rules to stay in their house. So, um, it's interesting.

Rich: And I think that's going to be Oh, shit on the

Catelin: carpet.

Rich: Correct.

Catelin: Oops.

Rich: That's going to be the bigger, uh, implication for Instagram. Um, I think that they'll have a bump from this TikTok issue, but I do think that Meta just jumping out there and saying, no more moderation. Everything's great. Um, just community notes and it's like, yeah, cause it's working so well on X, nay Twitter.

Rich: Um, I think we're going to see a huge shift and maybe we need a huge shift and a big shake up.

Catelin: I, I would put more money on people like removing themselves from the social media ecosystem altogether.

Rich: I've seen that too.

Catelin: Trying to, trying to re engage in real life and, and build community with the people, like the physical beings around them, as opposed to.

Catelin: They're phones and, um,

Rich: I hope so. I miss like game nights and things like that. Like, um, we had friends over for

Catelin: dinner last night and it was lovely. They brought their girls. We set them free. We just said, go run. And they were having a grand time. We, they make the most delicious macaroni and cheese. It was beautiful.

Catelin: And it was like an hour and a half. And I just felt so like,

Rich: refreshed,

Catelin: but like, yeah, yes.

Rich: Emotionally nourished,

Catelin: spiritually. Connected

Rich: anyway,

Catelin: go touch some grass. Isn't that what the babies are saying?

Rich: I think so. Yes. All right. So we don't know what's going to happen with TikTok. That's our summary for this one.

Rich: It's kind of a wild shit show, but, um, creators are back and trying, but they're not super happy. So I think that's bad for TikTok. Um, so we'll see what happens.

Catelin: Yeah. But

Rich: yeah.

Catelin: You can always find our agency at antidote underscore seven one. If you have a question you'd like to send our way, you can visit cta podcast dot live, send us an email, or even better, you can leave us a voice message on our hotline at four zero two seven one eight nine nine seven one.

Catelin: Your question might make it into a future episode, which will be.

Rich: Shoot a TikTok and email that to us. Don't. Okay, fine. Zach would take TikToks from people. Email a TikTok?

Catelin: You can send a link,

Rich: you can send a link, you can share a link. All right, so we do have an episode coming up. I don't know if it's the next one or not, but we do have an episode coming up.

Rich: Um, as we get to, um, the big game, because we don't want to be sued for trademark infringement, but y'all know what that is. Um, it's

Catelin: the Taylor Bowl 2. 0.

Rich: Oh yeah. That's our trademark.

Catelin: Yeah.

Rich: Um, Super Sunday Punch, um, is going to be our drink and we will be talking about our favorite ads from the big game, which doesn't mean I have to watch.

Rich: Where's somebody going to put all the, no, that person will put those together on YouTube, whoever that is. And they just. Shrink it all together, it's just the ads. I might watch because I like a good Taylor cameo and you know, being all upset about it. So stay tuned for that. It will obviously be probably, I'm guessing, the week after, uh, that Super Sunday big game.

Catelin: We'll

Rich: email you. And the fact that you can get in trouble for saying that just blows my mind. You can get

Catelin: in trouble for saying Super Owl.

Rich: Yes, they crack down really hard on people saying that or using it in any way. Um, you can, we could probably sneak in that it's journalistic cause we're not making money, like no one's paying us to do this shit.

Rich: Um, but if you want to call Zach, um, 402 718 7971 and he'll be there. Um, but yeah, all right. Little random tangent at the end there, but good episode. I think superb was really, um, I mean, it's just a whole, like, God, tick tock.

Catelin: Nobody knows. Nobody knows. Correct. We'll see you next time.

Okay.