102 - Should Podcast Advertising be a Part of Your Audio Strategy?

Rich: Oh, we are back with another episode. It's a, it's a podcast about podcasting. Zach,

Zac: a podcast about podcast advertising.

Rich: Yes. Should podcast advertising be part of your marketing mix? Um, are you doing it? Are you not doing it? Should you be doing it? Should you not be doing it? Lots of questions. Yeah. Lots of answers though, too.

Zac: Oh, a hundred percent. I think this is a really interesting form of advertising. I think a lot of people overlook it. And, uh, if you listen to as many podcasts as probably both you and I listen to, you've probably run into a ton of ads, so it'll be fun to talk about them.

Rich: Mm, mm-hmm. Yeah. So, um, really interesting.

It's, it's a, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, right? Like it's its own kind of broadcast. Beast. Um, people like to loop it in with like streaming audio, but streaming audio is so general, like it's really big. That includes like the over the air through an app or like SiriusXM's app or Pandora or Spotify.

And there's all kinds of things in streaming audio, but podcasting is kind of this subset of it that. It's is huge. Um, and it's starting to survive on ads, right? Because we don't pay for a lot of podcasts. I mean, you can usually pay for a premium a lot of times. Like they'll have extended episodes or, um, like there's one that I'd listen to that if you're a Patreon member at a certain level, you get a second episode each week, that's shorter, but on a different topic and a little bit more like raw, gritty 'cause it's not actually out there in the wild.

Um. But it's something that you can think about in your marketing strategy. We've done a little bit, we've promoted our podcast through podcast advertising on Spotify. Um, kind of mixed results on that. Um, but yeah, I'm excited about this one.

Zac: Oh,

Rich: a hundred percent.

Zac: And, uh, uh,

Rich: oh, go ahead. I was gonna say I was not excited when I saw the drink.

I think. Appletini. Seriously, Zach. But I appreciate when we get to the recipe and the history of this, it is not all about schnapps at all.

Zac: Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So Appletini, uh, I was looking for cocktails for this quarter and I was like, I need to find something that's like older but not too old. Like something that's more like.

Something that people know, but maybe like haven't heard of in a while. And I've stumbled across a list that said what disco drinks need to come back. And surprisingly, this was on there and, uh, I'd never heard of it. You've never heard of an appletini? Never. No. So I thought it'd be interesting to, uh, kind of just like, look into this, look into this drink more because I didn't know much about it.

So the Appletini was first crafted in the 1990s at Lola's and West Hollywood, quickly becoming a pop culture, a pop culture staple. It was in scrubs and sex in the city. And, uh, a lot of people consider it a novelty drink, but, uh, it has kind of withstood the test of time. It's starting to come back. More people are, uh, kind of, uh, enjoying this drink.

And I think this, uh, recipe we have below is a little bit of a elevated version of what you would normally think of from an appletini,

Rich: because usually it's that like electric, green, is it de dick's? Like schnapps? Like, yeah. And vodka. And I don't know if there's anything else really in it besides those two things typically.

And it's just, they're, they're wild. Um, I am surprised you hadn't heard of this. It's kind of like a. I would put it in like that fruity drink with like a lemon drop and a kamikaze kind of, they all kinda live in that. Mm-hmm. Sort of sweet with a little bit of sour to 'em. Um, and they're all very colorful, obviously.

Um. So if you're gonna make this, um, you are going to need a cocktail shaker and you're going to take one and a quarter ounces of vodka, an ounce of calvados, which I had to look up, but it's an apple, it's a brandy made out of apples or pears typically. Um, so that's where you get some of your, like, it's probably some pretty deep.

Apple or paired flavor in this. Then, um, one and a quarter ounces of Granny Smith apple juice. I have never juiced an apple, but I'm sure you, I mean, I guess you can. Um. Quarter ounce lemon juice, freshly squeezed quarter ounce of simple syrup. Um, and then you've got a couple garnishes to set aside Granny Smith, apple slices, um, and a branded cherry.

Um, so yeah, so you take your, some crushed ice and put it in a cocktail glass and set it aside to chill. Typically, these are in a martini glass. You don't have to, you can serve any drink in any glass, really. Um, they're really fun in a coup glass. They just look a little bit more elevated, I guess, than a martini glass.

Um, so vodka, calvados, apple juice, lemon juice, and simple syrup. All go into the shaker with ice and you shake those until your hand is freezing. Uh, and that means it's well chilled. And then you toss the ice outta the cocktail glass and double strain the mixture into the glass. So we're using Granny Smith apple juice.

So you're gonna have like some. Fibers, I guess, like apples don't really have pulp, right?

Zac: No, they can be, yeah. Unless you have like a super good juicer that like strains out everything, you're probably gonna have some like residual stuff.

Rich: Yeah. So you double strain it, um, into the glass. Um, and then when you've done that, it should be pretty clear.

And, uh, I don't know how green this one would be. Um,

Zac: I don't know if, I don't know if any of it's green. Yeah. But, uh, because yeah,

Rich: the, the calvados would be more of a brownish color 'cause it's a brandy and the Granny Smith apple juice is gonna be almost clear, like apple juice. Mm-hmm. Like it's not red apple juice.

And you're not mixing in the. Well, I guess if you were juicing the peels as well, like if you've got a juicer and you're putting the whole thing in, it might be green. Um, I don't know. So garnish with that branded cherry and the granite me apple slices and you are good to go.

Zac: I'm looking up a picture of it and it is a little bit of a, a green hu It's not like a bright green, it's more of like a yellowish green.

So the recipe's from uh, looker.com and um, yeah. I, I'm like kind of reading this a little more and it's definitely like an elevated version and I'm trying to figure out, it must be from like the peel itself.

Rich: Like, yeah, adding some green, it would be using a juicer to, and juicing the whole apple peel and all.

I mean, 'cause juicers like they take out like the bad bits of the core and the seeds and all that stuff. Right. They typically split those out. It's really beautiful and it's kind of in a, yeah, it's kind of in a deep coop glass, I guess is what I would call that on here.

Zac: And I like how they like, uh, garnish with the apples with the little fan that looks nice.

Rich: Yeah, so using a skewer, like honestly buying cocktail skewers for garnish is one of the best things we ever did. We've got some nice metal ones, um, and they wash up really easy just in like hot soapy water. Like just, we generally put 'em in a bowl 'cause they're so small, like you don't wanna lose them like in the dishwasher or something.

But yeah, you skewer the cherry and then the three apples in, like a little fan in the skewer and then just kind of rest it across the glass. Very elevated. Zach, I like it.

Zac: So would you try this over the normal appletini?

Rich: Oh yeah. I won't drink a regular appletini. They're so like artificial and like, yeah.

Ooh, there it's so much neon green. Um, there is a restaurant here that does a lemon drop that I really like at taxis. Um, and they also have, well they did have, I don't know if they still do, I haven't been there in a while. Um, a lemon, um, molten lava cake, a lemon lava cake. So it's, oh, what the heck? It's a lemon cake, but it has a, uh, vanilla cream in the middle that's molten.

That's, wow,

Zac: I've never heard of anything but chocolate molten cake. I'm gonna, right. Chloe likes lemon. I'm gonna have to try that.

Rich: It's so good. Well, you got a little bit of time if you're still in Omaha. Maybe taxi's for dinner tonight. There you go. Monday is Martini Monday. They do discounts on martinis on Mondays, so I might have to check it out.

Uh, it's up at like, it's on, I think ish. Um, a hundred and 20th hundred 32nd. Somewhere up in there. Anyway. Hi, digress. All right, so should we get into this podcast advertising the ins and outs and what to do after the break? Sec.

Zac: Let's do it.

Rich: Oh, we are back to talk podcast advertising.

Zac: Yep. We've done a little bit of it on Spotify.

Rich: We've done a little, yeah. Um. So it's different than other types of digital ads, right? Like even other types of streaming ads. Podcast advertising tends to be a little bit different, and there's multiple ways you can go at it.

Um, so let's just talk through some of those. So, um, first of all, why, why is advertising in a podcast different than just advertising in like a Spotify audio stream, like of music?

Zac: Well, for me, I think it's a little more niche, like, uh mm-hmm. With podcast advertising, you can really focus in on like specific topics that, you know, your target audience is engaging with and there's a lot of very niche topics with podcasts like ours, for example, where a marketing cocktail podcast.

So it's a weird niche. Yeah. But, um, you're able to find, uh, I mean I think it's just more of an intimate experience, right? Like they're harder to skip. They are, um, easier to listen to. 'cause they're, most times they're integrated with the actual like episode themselves. Mm-hmm. So something interesting with that though, with Spotify, um, some of those are just like before the actual podcast, I've noticed that you can get like 32nd or 15 second ads.

Mm-hmm. And that's kind of what we did, where it's not the host necessarily reading it. It's like us. Reading like a script and like putting that out there. But, um, with other podcast ads, it's like the hosts themselves have agreed to do this ad for you and it's a part of their episode. So, I mean, some people probably skip that.

I find myself listening to those more because it's just more na a natural flow with the, um, actual like episode itself. So, mm-hmm. It feels more like, you know, a friend making a recommendation rather than somebody trying to sell you something.

Rich: Yeah, and I think you've, like, you've kinda hit the nail on the head.

So you can do traditional where you just create a 15 or 32nd spot and you throw it in there and it airs before it or after it or whatever, and it's all good. Um, but the ones that are more interesting and I think, um, so like Amy PO's podcast, good hang. Um, is interesting because she reads all of her sponsorships.

Obviously big podcast, big listenership, um, has multiple people like dealing with her endorsements and things, but she injects her personality into it. Um, and a lot of times the she'll also, like, they'll also only do things that they believe in. Like they're not gonna advertise something they're morally opposed to or that they don't like.

Um, so you do have some of that in there, but I think that. The plus side of that is exactly what you said. You get this sort of intermi, intimate, conversational ad coming. It's kind of like old radio remotes, right? Where the radio talent would like be on location and be like talking about your brand and doing other stuff.

Um, it's just, um, you know, completely different than that because it's podcasts.

Zac: Yeah. And I think, um, it's really, it's really different from a lot of digital ads. Because again, like these are highly engaged listeners. Um, if they're listening to a niche show about something within your industry, then they're probably more likely to act on what they act, what they're hearing.

Um, I wanted to think of like a fun example, but. Yeah, basically like for example, like if somebody listened to our, if a cocktail or like liquor company advertised some of their spirits in our episode and we created a recipe, or they helped us create a recipe for our actual, like podcast cocktail, I think a lot of people would be willing to try it or like go out and buy that specific spirit because it's something they're interested in.

Give it a whirl.

Rich: I think a, a good example would be if you have a fitness podcast and you sell protein shakes, um, being in. That fitness podcast with your protein shakes is gonna make sense, right? Especially if you've got the hosts endorsing it almost. And that's, I think, where podcasts kind of blur the line.

It's not just, and sometimes they do come off as just ads that are being read by a person. Totally fine. But they also do generally come off as kind of an endorsement by the hosts of that podcast, um, which can be really interesting. It's, um, and obviously that version is a little harder. Um. Than just, you know, popping an ad on Spotify and letting it run.

Zac: Yeah. And it's someone, it's like almost like a trusted voice telling you to buy this product rather than just someone random on the internet, because podcasts have loyal followings. So a lot of the podcasts that I listen to have a lot of the same ads, and it makes me wonder, oh, like obviously like I'm the type of person that would like this ad.

So I don't know. Whenever I get a podcast ad, I feel like it's definitely tailored towards me.

Rich: Yep. Um, so I think the big question then is does it work like, and, and if you're a small business especially, or a medium business and you're just trying this for the first time, how do you know it works? How do you know you're not wasting your money?

Zac: So there's a several co there's a few different ways you could track your success. Um, if you're like a B2C business and you're trying to sell a product using like a promo code mm-hmm. That's also true on like YouTube. A lot of YouTube channels have promo codes with that specific, uh, creator. Like tied into the code.

Yep. You could do a URL to like a landing page or like visit us at this. That's a little more tricky because it's audio, so nobody's gonna be like really clicking. You can include it in the show notes, but it's less likely that people are gonna click on the show notes and stuff like that. Yep. And then another is just like direct traffic to your, uh, like website or like brand, because.

A lot of what POD podcast advertising is designed to do is to increase your brand recognition and brand recall, because at the end of the day, like most ads. Don't last that long out in the wild. But because podcast episodes integrate their ads, um, those aren't changing. People will go back to old podcast episodes and listen.

So the longevity of them is something to think about as well. Yeah, those are some ways that you can track success.

Rich: Yeah. So you've gotta be careful not to do like a promo for just like this week. Like it has to really be like a new, new subscriber, new purchaser kind of thing that you're gonna leave on.

That's almost evergreen. Um, if you're gonna do that. A lot of times they just use a referral from the person. Um, like you said, it's the name of the show or it's the name of the person. Um, you see that on Instagram as well. You see that on, um. Uh, you know, like you said, YouTube. Um, but that's one way to track.

And I think what's interesting about that is in a podcast. The people who are listening, like that host, they like that podcast. Um, and they have like some sort of a personal affinity for that person. So they're generally more likely to put in a like slash you know, Zack, if you're listening to this podcast and go for a promo.

Um, then if they're just kind of out in the wild and it's slash you know, promo 2025 or something, um, because they know that that podcaster's gonna get. Credit for that. And they feel like that's probably gonna keep the podcast going. And this advertising is what supports it. Um, and I think that's another big piece is podcasters can just explain to you in the moment, like, this is why we have advertising.

It's because, you know, so we can stay on the air. And so I can do more of this. Um, because it's a commitment, it takes a while to do a podcast. Like, and for some of these that are very high produced, I mean, it's like. A 30 minute TV show just in audio. Mm-hmm. Like there's some that I listen to, I know they record it in pieces, they edit it together, they add extra snippets, they do interviews.

Um, you know, there's a studio involved. Sometimes, um, it can be a lot. So I think that that loyalty and that, um, that affinity can like, rub off a little bit, which is really nice.

Zac: And the more of a relationship as. If you are wanting to do podcast advertising, the better relationship you can build with that host.

It's kind of stepping into like influencer marketing now. Mm-hmm. But the better relationship you can build with them and the happier you can make them to work with you, it really like shines through in their like promotion. If it's a product that can. Genuinely get behind because I know a lot of podcasters, or at least some of the ones that I listen to, genuinely care about the products they're promoting.

They don't just wanna promote anything. So if it's a product or service that like really aligns with that host, then. It's, it's really gonna be a good ad and I think that's another advantage of this compared to just normal like audio ads that go in between like songs on Pandora or Spotify. I think the host actually promoting your service or product really can hit.

With a lot of, yeah, and I think,

Rich: you know, there's a couple caveats to that. Like you've gotta be ready for them to inject their personality. Um, I know that with a lot of them, e sometimes I know they're, they're like adlibbing. They're just kind of going off on what the product is and like they take a little tangent and it's totally fine.

So you've gotta be o okay with that looseness and trust them. Obviously, they're not gonna do something to damage your brand because they want you to come back. They want your money like. You know, and hopefully they like your brand as well. But yeah, it really does blur that line between like, um, you know, endorsement influencer radio ad, like it's all kind of messy and mixed up in there.

Um, and maybe that's good. Maybe it's confusing our brains into like, wanting to buy the things that we hear about them.

Zac: If a friend recommends you a service, it's different from an ad recommending you a service. Yep. Yep.

Rich: Okay. So, um, what about like social or paid search? So if we're talking about influencers, like let's talk about like an influencer on Instagram versus a podcaster, like sharing, um, your info.

Like how does that, like, how does that work? Like, is it, is one better than the other? Does it depend?

Zac: Um, in terms of like an influencer on social sharing and then a podcast ad, I'd say they're pretty similar in terms of like what you're trying to do with them, but in terms of like how both work. Again, like podcast episodes, a social post is very in the moment and algorithm based.

Mm-hmm. I think it doesn't last. It still does not last as long it's gone. Yeah. As a podcast episode. Yep. Very rarely do people go through a influencer's profile and go back through old posts. I mean,

Rich: looking for that ad that I really wanted from that product.

Zac: Exactly. That stuff dies on the vine quicker than something like, you know, a podcast episode or even a YouTube video, which a lot of podcasts are on.

And that's a whole, that's a whole nother uh, like I guess. Like angle of this too is like if you do a video podcast, then you probably could have a link pop up on the screen. Mm-hmm. Yep. So that's just another reason to consider because in that, because then you have a YouTube video and you have an audio version.

So that's two different things that, you know, your ad, you pay a one-time fee for your ADSD who exist forever.

Rich: Maybe. I mean, maybe it's a savvy potentially like podcast that's like charging separately for both of them. Um, that would be hard to do though. That's true. Um, because. Like, you don't wanna record your podcast twice, but I guess you could record it and then you could record your ads and insert them if you wanted to.

I mean,

Zac: some people do do that where they record an ad spot and then just integrate it into the actual video and then they go back to the real episode. I've seen that before. Yeah.

Rich: Yeah. I mean, and we record this podcast without ads in two or three segments usually, so. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, editing can be your friend.

Um, I think the other thing is that, you know, you're going for. The audience that this podcaster has. So it's almost like buying tv, like buying a TV show. You're going for the people who are aligned with that podcaster. Um, and if you're getting into some of the larger podcasts, they know who their audience is, they know the demographics, they know who the people are, et cetera.

Um, but you're also like aligning with them and looking for somebody like-minded, like that influencer piece. So there's audience plus influencer, um, versus something like paid search where, you know. You're just, somebody's looking for a particular thing. Um, they may not be looking for what you're offering when they listen to the podcast, but it might pique their interest just because, you know, this podcast that they love, talked about it.

Um, and all of that. I know I've gone, um, occasionally I've heard an ad on a podcast and I've gone and like investigated like the product if it was something I was sort of in the market for anyway, and I'm like, oh, I should go look at that, you know, seems interesting. Um.

Zac: Yeah, I feel like the biggest ads I get on podcasts are like, for better help.

So I don't know what that says about me, but I mean,

Rich: maybe you need a therapist, Zach. No. Better help is out there, I think in part, um, because it's an easier one to have somebody endorse. Yeah, because therapy

Zac: is relevant. To basically any audience, probably.

Rich: Mm-hmm. I mean, and they had, I dunno if it was better help, if it was one of the other ones, but you know, Michael Phelps did one of those for a mental health awareness therapy thing because of his struggles that he went through with like.

Being an Olympian and the stress of that and then getting out of that. And then now you've got this loss of this thing that was your whole life and then he, you know, started a family and all that. Um, and I think the same thing can happen with podcasters, especially if like, they're very open about their lives usually.

Mm-hmm. And so if they know that they've been struggling with like, you know, depression or anxiety or something like that, you know, they might actually be a better help user. But I think, I think Better Help has done a really good job of finding people who can advocate for what they do. What they have, um, and make it feel genuine.

Um, yeah.

Zac: And that's a good example of the type of product or service that does really well for podcast advertising. Mm-hmm. You just need people to know who you are and what you're about. You don't necessarily need to like, send them to a very specific landing page or mm-hmm. You know, some kind of, I mean, some kind of like therapy offer, you know, like, I just think it's like interesting how, um.

Uh, podcast advertising definitely has, its like strengths and I think it's like compared to like paid search, which is very intent based, like you said, where you're searching, you're searching for something. This, like, these people that you're targeting may not be searching for you, but they'll remember you if the ad is engaging enough.

Rich: Mm-hmm. Well, and I think you also get some frequency there, right? 'cause most podcasts are weekly and so, and people. You know, it's almost like appointment, um, old appointment television where like if a podcast comes out on Thursdays and you're really into that podcast, you're gonna listen to it. You're gonna wanna understand, you know, where they're going, what's going on with this?

I'm more sporadic with my podcast. It's when I'm in the car. Usually I'll like just go through and see what I've got. Um, or somebody will send me an episode. Caitlyn sent me a couple, um, the other day, some Brene Brown stuff and I listened to those, um, those, I was just sitting in the living room, like playing a game and listening to 'em.

Then I realized I wasn't really listening, so I closed my computer and just like. Focused on the podcasts. Um. But yeah, it's interesting. So, um, I think you've kind of gotten into a good segue there with like a good advertiser who this is really right for, like somebody who, um, you know, you just need the awareness.

You don't necessarily have to have an offer or you can have an offer for new people that everybody sees when they get there. Um, and you could use it, I mean, better help use this promo codes too, I think from some of those podcasts. Um. But something that can be explained easily, quickly, and simply, um, and that people can easily find you.

So that's a great one. So if somebody's out there and they're thinking like, should I get into podcast advertising? Like beyond, I mean, obviously doing the 15 or 30 before or after, you can do that anytime. That's super easy. Um, and that's just part of a broader audio strategy, but getting into like actually researching and finding podcasts that align with you and reaching out and trying to get that tighter.

You know, pseudo endorsement, pseudo influencer. Um, what makes that right?

Zac: Like, yeah, I think, man, there's a lot of, like, I think there's a lot of things you need to think about if you're considering

Rich: Okay. Break them down. I guess

Zac: advertising we can like, um, something that I think you should ask yourself is.

What is your actual goal for the campaign? Much like any campaign. Mm-hmm. Uh, you need to determine what's your primary goal, and that'll help you determine what platform or form of advertising will work best for you. So do you wanna raise awareness? Educate someone on who you are in your product, or do you want direct conversions?

If you want direct conversions, I would stay away maybe from podcast advertising. It's not as effective. Yeah, if you're creative. Yeah. If you're creative, it might work. Um, not that I'm thinking about it. The, the second most popular ad I tend to get on podcasts or for LinkedIn, like B2B advertising, so that's kind of funny.

Just that, um, like, it's like the, it's like, it's the ad where the kid. It has like the show and tell, I dunno if you've heard this ad or like the bring your parents to school day and their dad won't stop talking about B2B advertising. And I don't know, it's kind of funny,

Rich: but Oh, it's about be where you're like, yeah.

'cause the whole LinkedIn campaign is about like, you gotta get your message in front of the right audience and this is not the right audience for that advertising with these kids. Right. They've a whole series of TV and stuff for those too.

Zac: Yeah, and I think like, like making people aware, like B2B businesses aware that you can advertise really well on LinkedIn.

Like that's kind of a funny like brand awareness thing. And I think, um, if you want to be an adver, like a podcast advertiser, I think you have to be able to tell strong stories and you have to like be willing, um. To be very creative with the things that you're doing. I would say it's probably gonna work best for B2C over b2b.

Mm-hmm. But that doesn't mean you can, can't, depends. It depends on your service and if it's something that you know, because if you're selling like industrial, like, uh, like parts, then maybe it's not like the perfect place because I'm, I'm doubting like, you know.

Rich: Yeah, no, I get that. I think that it matters if there are podcasts out there that align with who you're trying to reach.

Yeah. Because if you're, so, if you're in, um, you know, I think of like service industries, like architecture, like marketing, like business services, even business furniture, like some of those you can actually get into like a leadership podcast or a CEO podcast or whatever, or Shark Tank or something like that.

Yeah. But yeah, I do think that B2C is a lot easier because you're looking for people who are. Um,

Zac: interested in a product that probably aligns with the audience that you're advertising to on the podcast. Yeah. That's something

Rich: that you can, you know, really get into. Um, but if

Zac: you're a service a B2B service that just needs people to know that you exist, like then yeah, like the LinkedIn advertising stuff, I think it'd be a good fit.

Rich: But I'm thinking of some of the other ones, like MeUndies did a lot of podcast advertising. Yeah. And that's just a fun one. Like, um, that they were in. Um. And there's other things that are super, super niche, like as you, I won't get into some of them, but as you get into a, a podcast niche, um, if it's like an advice column, what type of advice is it?

Is it advice? Mm-hmm. For newlyweds? Then now you've got the whole wedding industry could be a part of that. Um, so really taking a look and seeing what that niche is. And honestly, I think the more niche the podcast, the better. Um, yeah. Because they won't necessarily go off topic then like, because you don't wanna be like, oh, these three episodes I can be in.

But then the next three have absolutely nothing to do with my brand. Um, and most podcasts don't do that. Like they kind of stick with the theme and keep going. Um, but I could see, you know, where that's happening.

Zac: Yeah. And I would say if you're just like curious and unsure if it's something that will work for you, you can always start it with a test campaign.

Eh, with like the minimum spends just to see if it's something that would work for you. Um, again, you need to have a strong, uh, like story or like you can kind of get creative with these ads. You don't want it to be overly scripted or something that is gonna sound like a pain for the host to read out.

Rich: Yeah, some you don't want it to sound phony. Yeah. Like they don't, the more you can

Zac: work with the host to make it as natural as possible, the better. I know, um, when I used to work at, when I used to work at a trucking company, one of the things that. As an intern, one of the things that we did was we reached out to a lot of, uh, trucking YouTubers and podcasters to like see kind of what prices they offered for, like ad spots and things like that.

Mm-hmm. And something that we like very quickly realized is that a lot of them did not want to promote, uh, basically like what we wanted done remote. Unless they had creative control over it. So again, you'll probably have to be willing to let go of some of the creative control depending on the host because, and that's probably for the best, to be honest, just so they can be natural with like, maybe give them some guidelines so they don't say anything like legally detrimental to your business, but.

Yeah, so that's something that was interesting to me. Again, there's platforms that you can use that will, that podcasters use to, um, basically like. Pull in advertisers. Mm-hmm. But reaching out directly is also another way of doing that.

Rich: Very interesting. Yeah. I you like, oh, we're on this platform. Go here.

They might not want to entertain that like directly, but that's totally fine. Um, yeah, I think it's, it's, you know, think talking points, think the things that you need them to hit and then let them kind of, um. Roll with it. Um, but as long as they hit the points you want to, and they don't disparage your brand, they're gonna do this in their voice.

Not necessarily your brand voice. It's not an ad. So that's one of the things you kind of got, gotta get used to with influencers and podcasters. Um, I still go back to the old radio station remotes, like you had so much control over that, but not a lot. Like you hit the points and they would kind of, they knew their audience and they would go off and make it work.

So I think that's the last thing that you need. If it's right for your brand, you've gotta be flexible, you've gotta be willing to like kind of roll the dice a little bit and take a little bit of a risk. Um, if you're gonna get into those more endorsement type, uh, podcast ads,

Zac: yeah, you definitely need to know what you're getting yourself into and what kind of ads and goals will work best for the platform.

Rich: Yep. Yep. All right. Well I feel like that's an episode, Zach, and we'll be back, uh, next week. We're gonna have another spot Team Spotlight. This one's wild. So Caitlyn's been doing the team spotlights? I haven't, but, um, this is Caitlyn's Team Spotlight, and so I think I'm doing the, the asking and um, the, yeah, a little guest host action interviewing on that.

So I'm the guest host in the team spotlights, because Caitlyn is the guest who's usually the host.

Zac: Yep. But somebody has to interview her. Because, yeah, she can't interview herself. I mean, she could have, but she

Rich: probably could. She could probably make that work.

Zac: All right, you wanna bring us home? You can find our agency@endedseventyone.com with links to all of our socials there.

If you have a question you'd like to send our way, head to CTA podcast live. To shoot us an email, or even better, leave us a voice message on our hotline at 4 0 2 7 1 8 9 9 7 1. Your question will feature in a future episode of the podcast.

Rich: Uh, I just did the, like the Boomer Gen X phone. Like this is a phone.

This isn't a phone anymore. It's like, this is the phone that blows my mind. Nice. All right, I digress. Uh, we will see you next week with Caitlyn's episode and have a great rest of your day, Zach. Thank you. You too.